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[Pandarsenic]

Since we're mostly burnt-out on Bastardry at the moment, no fooling around with mentor and disciple having different goals, plx.

[Leafsnail]

Yeah, that would just be cruel.

Although there could be some "neighbour" type groups, I guess.

[webadict]

I'm now getting the idea for a small game with each player getting a "mentor" they can talk to in quickchat.

Dear lord, yes.  That sounds like it could be hilariously fun.

Want.

This is a good idea for a Beginner Mafia, since each person can talk to someone with experience while they play the game. Plus, it doesn't crowd up the thread, and it's a DIRECT approach and helpful because it focuses on their role too, as well as their game.

[dakarian]

We could run this game that way actually.  It's still early on so we can develop it into a mentoring style. 

[SirBayer]

I'm now getting the idea for a small game with each player getting a "mentor" they can talk to in quickchat.

Dear lord, yes.  That sounds like it could be hilariously fun.

Want.

Want.

Also call Pandarsenic for my mentor, because while I know he has a very low opinion of me, I have a very high opinion of his game.

But not him.

[Pandarsenic]

I'm now getting the idea for a small game with each player getting a "mentor" they can talk to in quickchat.

Dear lord, yes.  That sounds like it could be hilariously fun.

Want.

Want.

Also call Pandarsenic for my mentor, because while I know he has a very low opinion of me, I have a very high opinion of his game.

But not him.

I have a high opinion of her mother. Let's just say she's earned it.

[SirBayer]

You're saying you have a high opinion of my grandma?

[ExKirby]

Must sig.

[spitfire684]

I guess im In as well.
This shall be my second mafia game, hopefully I will do better than the first.

[Pandarsenic]

Whoops. Pronoun failure. Oh well.

[dakarian]

Alright, so we can turn this game into a test over having mentors. 

For that, we'll need a few more 'IC's (which will probably change their name to mentor..  Alex would be happy ).  Unless we somehow end up with 8 mentors (because, honestly, I believe the scum team just needs one in quick chat), I imagine the mentors will need to get together to decide which people they want to mentor.  A mentor can have more than one novice BUT each novice can only have one mentor.

[Pandarsenic]

Uh, if two people share a mentor it's obvious they're a scumteam candidate. We would either have to keep mentors totally in quickchat/PM and make asking about them forbidden or... something. Or have each scum player get one.

[dakarian]

Theory: 

Mentoring will be in quicktopic/pm (I'm thinking default is PM but the mentor/novice can request a quicktopic be made for them).

Also NO DISCUSSION about your mentor can be made, AT ALL!  You will live longer by quoting your PM than by naming your mentor.. or even LOOKING like you are naming them.

[Vector]

Good god.  What has happened... ?

Here's the thing.  I am going to continue to say that this is a profoundly bad idea, and here's why:

I have IC'd some 4 games straight now, and I can tell you that from watching the playing of those games, the IC system is causing a lot of problems (on the scum side, at least).  The addition of mentors for all of the players is just going to exacerbate things.

So, what's the problem?  The problem is that the ICs get too damned involved in the beginner's game.  The scum IC tells the scumteam how to get out of sticky spots; the town IC tells the town who he thinks is scum.  It becomes an indirect game pitting one IC against the other, and also a game where the town feels they must use the scum IC's meta.

I have been "gifted" with credit for killing power roles; players now sort each other out based on my teaching-meta ("That one's not scum, or Vector would have killed him by now.").  You may also note Webadict's statements in the current BMVIII, if you like.

Essentially, I think there is a need to back off on the part of the ICs, and give less help, rather than more.  An Intermediate game needs strong ICs and perhaps a per-player mentor system, but a beginner's game really doesn't.  Beginners need to know the rules and a little bit of basic theory, but they don't need--and, in fact, suffer from--the current wash of "help."  If you like, consider the case of RNG and Nirur Torir.  I was heavily involved with their game the first time, thinking they would pick up the information and be able to move on easily from there; when I sat back during the second, they ran themselves into the ground (though I will submit here that they also had a good deal of poor luck and unexpected situations in that round).

I think that the current system is destroying beginners' development in crucial areas, particularly creativity.  Some are good at picking up a mentor's advice and creating their own ideas, whereas others ignore the mentor completely... and others yet lean on them too heavily.  There's something that feels deeply wrong with the current system, which seems unlikely to be solved by merely injecting more Grand Viziers into an already unstable political climate.

[quinnr]

I'd be alright without a mentor, if you can't get enough.
I've played lots of chat mafia before.