Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Neonivek]

One issue I am finding with quite a few players is they immediately find a snag later on with obtaining an anvil. Either because the traders don't have one, it is too expensive, or they made the traders angry.

I am seriously considering that the "Embark without an anvil" suggestion isn't really a good idea.

I understand that the anvil is expensive but it presents a convenience that won't backfire in the near future. It also isn't so expensive that you don't have everything you need from the getgo.
-Exceptions exist

What do you think?

[riznar]

Wouldn't "How to trade" lessons work better?

You can also teach new players good food production so that they can buy whatever they want from the traders.

I find anvils useless at first anyway because I'm busy setting up everything and exploring the map.

[P-Luke]

I usually don't even use an anvil until I'm a few years into the fortress, having seen multiple caravans from all (trading) races.
I've never ever had a problem with obtaining one, other then them being expensive, and I still think it's a good choice not to embark with it.

Having said so, if you plan to make your fortress all about making and selling, say, gold sacrofagi, then yes you might want to bring it along to be sure.

[Sphalerite]

My thinking is that if you're pissing off the traders to the point that they won't trade, or if you can't scrape the 1000 or so dwarfbucks together one costs by the time you need it, then you have problems beyond not having an anvil.  I can't remember the last fortress where I couldn't easily afford to buy an anvil from the fall caravan.  I guess if you're doing a no-trade isolated fortress or something you should bring an anvil, but IMHO the cost would far better be spent elsewhere for your starting embark.

[Neonivek]

I guess I am different. I use my Anvil usually within the first year.

Though I guess the "No anvil" policy may change with better annoyances.

Though the point of this topic isn't to say the "No Anvil" suggestion is useless

It is only to say that the "No Anvil" suggestion is over-rated and should be treated as preference rather then "The way to play". The Walkthroughs I've read treat "No Anvil" as the way to play as well.

[Arrkhal]

My thinking is that if you're pissing off the traders to the point that they won't trade, or if you can't scrape the 1000 or so dwarfbucks together one costs by the time you need it, then you have problems beyond not having an anvil.

Exactly.  My ultra-paranoid approach is to just have a +5 stonecrafter and a dedicated broker with +5 negotiator.  Between those two, even a 3,000☼ steel anvil is little problem, even if I only start rock mug production when the traders enter the map.

[Rafal99]

Personally I never start with an anvil. I preffer spending points for more food and booze, more picks, axes, more dogs to train and some armor for my hunter. And I never need an anvil that early, usually I start the metal industry when I have about 40+ dwarves, which seems to be around the third year.
And if I need an anvil then the first dwarven caravan always brings a few of them, and any other dwarven / human caravan also has them unless you make a lot of demands from the liason so they have no more space for an anvil. Also 1000☼ is never a problem, any average quality meat roast is worth more than that, and usually I have about 15k☼ worth of stuff to trade before the first dwarven caravan comes to my fort.

[Neonivek]

Evil evil Rafal and your legal cheating

[LostxInxThought]

If I have magma I bring the anvil, and I set up my metal industry normally by mid-summer, if I don't have magma though, I won't bother with it, as a no-magma metal industry is hard to maintain with only 7 labourers and I have more important things to do with wood than burn it,  I need beds, barrels, bins etc.
and it's very rare that I don't have enough in prepared meals and stone crafts by autumn to buy an anvil from the first caravan (I've never seen them come without it), then I can use my 1st migrant wave to start up the industry from that (turn them into wood cutters, burners, furnace operators, and I tend to bring a metalsmith as an embark dwarf)

[NecroRebel]

Roast-selling is hardly necessary. Recently, I've been playing a carnivorous race, so I've had a lot more butchery than I had previously, and even if I start with only a novice bonecarver I still almost always have enough bonecrafts, leathercrafts, and skullcrafts to buy all of the useful metal bars, gems, animals, meats, leathers, and an anvil from the first couple of caravans.

Starting with a proficient bonecarver and leatherworker only makes it easier. Starting with an anvil is over-rated; the number of livestock you can get for the cost more than pays for it within a couple seasons.

[Neonivek]

In order for starting with an Anvil to be over-rated it would need to be a horrible idea that will kill you off.

Who OTHER then me even advocates starting with an anvil?

Being Over-rated doesn't mean "Good" it doesn't mean "Bad". It means that whatever people rate it, it deserves to have a lower rating. (I mean by all means, starting without an anvil IS a good strategy. I would never argue against that because I know it is a good strategy)

So far most people are arguing that starting without an anvil is a viable strategy when in order for it not to be over-rated they would need to prove that the money you spend with an anvil is absolutely vital and should be used somewhere else.
-Edit addition: Hmm too far... Proving THAT much would change the nature of this topic. Which I already realise I am betraying.

[Mephansteras]

I've never liked the 'no anvil' approach, personally. I'd much rather ditch the two Steel Axes and bring a skilled smith with me, some ore, and simply make myself Platinum and Brass Goblets, with some Bronze for Battle Axes, picks, and Bolts. Gives me plenty to trade with by the time the caravan shows up, I can get my metal industry up in a hurry, and I get a much higher chance of a Legendary Weapon or Armor smith early on.

I've never had a basic fort have any problems with this method. Exceptions being made for specific challenges, of course.

[Rafal99]

Evil evil Rafal and your legal cheating

Yeah booze-cooking is a cheat, but cooking meat and tallow from hunted animals is not so much, and you can easily get the same effect from stonecrafting, but since I had over 4000 stone crafts in one of my forts, I prefer other solutions, cause hauling of all these stones and stone crafts is so much of a pain.

[Neonivek]

Well I don't mind Booze cooking since I've never had problems keeping a fortress fed (Keeping them boozed up is much more of an issue) even without cooking alcohol.

I just don't sell most Stacks due to their super-inflated price. It is too far down that road.

[P-Luke]

I use wine for cooking sometimes, it's not that strange is it?
Okay, using wine to cook wine spiced with wine is a bit weird, but that's not really an exploit but more like an imperfection if you ask me.