Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[pushy]

Except if you do that, the trader will just tell you to go and drink water, as he will not take this pile of junk as it is. Whereas if you keep the items in the bins, he will happily trade it.

...this isn't true at all.

this is what i noticed: offered them bunch of rock junk for trade without the bins the rock junk was packed in, and they refused. Added the same rock junk with the bins (and the bins themselves were hardly expensive enough to justify a change in attitude) and they accepted with ecstatic response.

So it might not be true from where you look at it, but - as i said - its pretty much what i saw.

You probably forgot a bin or two the first time, or deselected some of the things you were going to take.
"You offer us 5,000¤ in earrings and bracelets for our 4,000¤ of silk, cheese, booze and anvils? We spit on your pathetic offer for our luxurious goods. There is another fortress just on the other side of the mountain that will give us far more for goods of this quality."
"How about we throw in 50¤ of bins as well?"
"Wonderful, absolutely exquisite. Yes, 5050¤ is sooooo much better than 5000¤ that I feel ecstatic about the offer now."
Just doesn't happen. But if you take out a few of the more expensive items that you were wanting to buy (bins of GCS silk, dwarf cheese, armour, bolts, anvils) to decrease the value of goods you're buying, and optionally add in the bins to increase the value of the goods you're giving away, THAT can turn a rejection into an ecstatic acceptance. So there's something you're neglecting to mention, or just something that you neglected to notice...but what you're describing absolutely will not happen in the game, end of story.

[Cheddarius]

wha-
wha-
what is this

i dont even

[vogonpoet]

But what if neither caravan brings an anvil?  Or if he went into a mood sooner?

I've had close situations to that before, only difference being an anvil at the start.

Last time I embarked with an anvil (recently), my first mood was a weaponsmith mood, the forge was all charcoaled up raring to go, I had a variety of smelted bars already, but the fussy wee prick couldn't find the type of shiny bar he wanted... I smelted more of every type of ore my miners had discovered to date, and he still wasn't satisfied ... shiny bars... shiny bars... dude went all melancholy and the infinite sadness on me and died.

Bottom line, if your weaponsmith mood comes early, already having an anvil just might not be enough.... next fort after that, no starting anvil. Screw it.

[SenorOcho]

Did you check to see if he wanted anything else? Q over the workshop and he'll mutter about the stuff he wants. More likely you didn't have silk cloth or something for him to make spikes out of.

[csebal]

But what if neither caravan brings an anvil?  Or if he went into a mood sooner?

I've had close situations to that before, only difference being an anvil at the start.

a) The chance of the first caravan not having at least some kind of anvil is low to begin with.
b) i believe there is a 20 dwarf limit for moods, which means you dont have a chance for it until the first migration wave, and even after that you have to have 20+ dwarves, which needs a 14+ wave. Not sure how it works for you, but i usually only get a smaller wave in late autumn, or a bigger one in winter / spring. Usually the earliest a mood can happen is spring next year (as it happened with me)
c) even if a mood happens, it is chance based which dwarf gets the mood. with 20+ dwarves and only 3 that have metal related skills you want a mood for, chances are not particularly high that the proper dwarv gets chosen.
d) even if you get the mood, you might still be able to salvage the situation if the humans come in summer second year and bring an anvil, which they usually also do.

Bottomline:
Not bringing an anvil might cause some problem, but for that problem to occur, there needs to be a series of rare random things happening at once, making the odds of actually encountering such a problem extremely low.

Its pretty much risk vs reward You risk a little by not bringing the anvil in exchange for more flexibility on choosing your embark items and skills.

You probably forgot a bin or two the first time, or deselected some of the things you were going to take.
"You offer us 5,000¤ in earrings and bracelets for our 4,000¤ of silk, cheese, booze and anvils? We spit on your pathetic offer for our luxurious goods. There is another fortress just on the other side of the mountain that will give us far more for goods of this quality."
"How about we throw in 50¤ of bins as well?"
"Wonderful, absolutely exquisite. Yes, 5050¤ is sooooo much better than 5000¤ that I feel ecstatic about the offer now."
Just doesn't happen. But if you take out a few of the more expensive items that you were wanting to buy (bins of GCS silk, dwarf cheese, armour, bolts, anvils) to decrease the value of goods you're buying, and optionally add in the bins to increase the value of the goods you're giving away, THAT can turn a rejection into an ecstatic acceptance. So there's something you're neglecting to mention, or just something that you neglected to notice...but what you're describing absolutely will not happen in the game, end of story.

I guess i will make some tests the next time i have another massive stock of rock junk for trading. Until then, i accept you are convinced you are right and i still believe that i saw what i saw

[vogonpoet]

Did you check to see if he wanted anything else? Q over the workshop and he'll mutter about the stuff he wants. More likely you didn't have silk cloth or something for him to make spikes out of.

He never got round to picking up anything... I can't remember what flavour of mood it was, but 'Q'ing over him just returned muttering about ...shiny bars... shiny bars... shiny bars... I checked out all the usual stuff in the stocks screen, made sure my lobster parts and whatever cloth and leather I had were available, but he just kept on asking for bloody shiny bars. Are iron bars not shiny? I can't remember exactly the dwarf's preferences, but I  guess maybe he really liked some metal I was unable to produce (I only had iron, billion, copper, silver and tin at the time I think), and thats why he went in a sulk?

I don't know, maybe I missed something really obvious, but I can't think what.

[assimilateur]

but what you're describing absolutely will not happen in the game, end of story.

What's more, the opposite is liable to happen when trading with elves and using wooden containers.

[random51]

but what you're describing absolutely will not happen in the game, end of story.

What's more, the opposite is liable to happen when trading with elves and using wooden containers.

Lol, the elves never bring me enough of anything to even justify carting a container full of goods up to the surface.

"You came all this way and you only brought me 4 logs and a bloated tuber?"

[Lord Shonus]

Luckily, I don't have to worry about offending the elves. Thanks to the modding I did to the goblins, the elves are extinct in nearly every world I generate now.

[assimilateur]

My elves have been modded so they siege me just like the goblins do. I can recommend this, but your way of driving them extinct altogether is also fine. Everything's better than wasting time* on trading with them.


* I guess I am exaggerating here a bit. While I do generally consider trading with them - as well as the humans - a waste of time, there is one thing to be said about trading with elves: they're a potential, though unreliable, source of exotic animals like giant eagles or elephants, that you might not otherwise get on your map. Hell, if they were more reliable in procuring said exotic livestock, I'd reverse their mods so they became friendly again.

[random51]

Elves exist to bring us Sunshine and sun berries.

[LegoLord]

But what if neither caravan brings an anvil?  Or if he went into a mood sooner?

I've had close situations to that before, only difference being an anvil at the start.

a) The chance of the first caravan not having at least some kind of anvil is low to begin with.
b) i believe there is a 20 dwarf limit for moods, which means you dont have a chance for it until the first migration wave, and even after that you have to have 20+ dwarves, which needs a 14+ wave. Not sure how it works for you, but i usually only get a smaller wave in late autumn, or a bigger one in winter / spring. Usually the earliest a mood can happen is spring next year (as it happened with me)
c) even if a mood happens, it is chance based which dwarf gets the mood. with 20+ dwarves and only 3 that have metal related skills you want a mood for, chances are not particularly high that the proper dwarv gets chosen.
d) even if you get the mood, you might still be able to salvage the situation if the humans come in summer second year and bring an anvil, which they usually also do.

I've seen both a and b contradicted on multiple occasions.  A has even happened with both dwarven and human caravans in several early forts in which I embarked without an anvil, which covers d - partially because I didn't know how wagon pathing worked and couldn't get wagons.  Something contrary to B left me with only six dwarves by the arrival of the first caravan instead of seven.  C is lessened with the knowledge you can get moods with only 7 dwarves, but is still true.  But one in seven chance, probably not good odds to recommend to a new player, especially considering population will grow more slowly in those forts (making them more vulnerable longer).

I think it's fair to say that embarking without one is slightly more advanced than what should be recommended to a new player.

[Lord Shonus]

Not to mention that embarking without an anvil locks you into depending on the auttumn caravan, wich is something that a newer player, less adept at making food and trade goods in the first place, may not want to rely on.

[The Architect]

Don't even try that line of reasoning, Shonus. I got more b*ed out by the lurkers of the forum who post here over that than I ever have in any thread. I even got reported for asking people not to fight over it, lol.

[Lord Shonus]

The trouble, architect, is not your reasononing so much as your tendency to come across as VERY abrasive. I do not think you do so intentionally, but that's the way you come across a lot of the time.