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[Thanshin]

This thread was about "Moving walls" but finally I found the rotating plates to be much more interesting so let's center the discussion on those.

- Rotating plate:

It's a nxn plate (n being any amount between 2 and max bridge length). Upon activation everything on the plate rotates 90º.

It should be possible to construct over the rotating plate. Thus, complex effects could be achieved with ramps, doors, traps or even walls and rooms. However, nothing can be constructed simultaneously on and off the plate (to avoid strange or too complex effects).

The buildings would actually be "Clockwise rotating plate" and "Counterclockwise rotating plate". (the examples in the thread are, by default, clockwise)

An example of rotation:

Code: [Select]

#####
#+g+#
.D++.
#++o#
#####

becomes

#####
#+D+#
.++g.
#o++#
#####


//---
From here on, my not so interesting idea about moving walls that should actually be in the machinery megathread:

- Pushing wall:

Its a building that occupies two cells, like a pump. One of them walkable, when "resting" and none walkable when "moved". Anything that's on the ex-walkable cell, gets pushed with infinite force. It's triggered as a bridge.

- Raising ground:

Its a single cell construction. Walkable when "resting", equivalent to a wall when "moved". Anything that's on it when it moves gets pushed to the upper z level.

- Lowering roof:

Identical to the raising ground but it pushes down. Normally, if there's space down nothing would be there except a flying creature; so this one is more limited as a trap unless you combine it with a raising ground to make something similar to a one floor elevator.

[lvk]

This sounds interesting. I'm not sure it's possible myself, but it would allow for some kickass complex forts. And killing nobles using that raising ground and the ceiling. A question for the rotating plate though - how would it turn when it's closed in by two walls on opposite sides?

[The Architect]

Wow, this is a really well-thought out way to implement a feature many people have been clamouring for, for years. Props! I came in here totally expecting to link a few threads from forum search and say "this idea has come up before", but you have really thought this through well and your suggestions seem very valuable.

Edit, Lvk: your avatar makes me think of a jumping heart.

[Thanshin]

A question for the rotating plate though - how would it turn when it's closed in by two walls on opposite sides?

Imagine a circle inscribed in a square. (or visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Inscribed_circles.svg)

It leaves four small partial cells but we can imagine them as just rounded corners.

The fun part would be to play with walls, ramps, bridges and other moving walls.

Examples: (using 3x3 rotating platforms)

The path switcher: It lets you choose between vertical and horizontal paths.

##+##
##+##
+#+#+
##+##
##+##


The crusher: combination of pressure plate (p), raising floor (r), left moving wall (w), and a 3x3 rotating plate. pressure plate is linked to all.

##+##
##P##
##R#W
##R##
##+##


The killing machine: pressure plate "enemies" (p), pressure plate "1/7" (P)

####ENTRY
######+#######
######P##77777
+++++++p#777777
#########77777
##############


The enemy enters, rotates, water presses P and rotates, drowns, dwarves rotate once more (with an external lever) to recover items in safety, and rotate once more to reset the trap.

[lvk]

A question for the rotating plate though - how would it turn when it's closed in by two walls on opposite sides?

Imagine a circle inscribed in a square. (or visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Inscribed_circles.svg)

Aha, like that. I'd definitely support this anyway, though. This idea scores a 9 on a scale from 1 to dwarf.

Edit, Lvk: your avatar makes me think of a jumping heart.

I'm not even sure it's a gopher. All I know is that it's angry and it instantly kills on collision. And it bounces.

[KenboCalrissian]

This gets me really excited for building Adventurer-oriented fortresses.  I'd love to play with complex structures and traps like this for dungeon crawling!

You should add a "Hidden Door" - basically a floodgate that looks like a normal wall that can be opened with a switch.  Maybe adventurers with a high Ambusher stat can see that it's a fake, or some other stat if something more appropriate comes out in the next version.

[Thanshin]

I was about to post a 5x5 rotating plate with two pressure plates inside and one outside, to turn it into a perpetual labyrinth until I saw that after teh fourth turn, the invader would've entered directly into the fort.

So much potential Fun...

Now I'm trying a 7x7 rotating four stage obsidian farm (think combustion engine).

To build complex mechanisms with this, think that a wall block inside the plate which coincides with a channeled floor on top, could open and close the entry of liquids as the plate rotates. Liquids that could activate pressure plates to rotate the plate.

[lucusLoC]

the rotating part is new, but the moving walls has been discussed before:

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=37219.0

I have been thinking about this, and i am posotive that something like this has been discussed on the mechanics mega thread, but since i cant find that thread i will post it here.

This workshop realy is a bit artificialy limited at the moment. If you think about it once wall movement is in there realy is no reason it should not work in any direction. But of course there are a whole host of problems that come with it. What happens when it comes in contact with a construction? A table? A workshop? A natural wall? What about walls and chairs and other stuff on top of it? Here is how i would adress the issues:

1. New item, the wall segment. Made from wood, stone or metal.
2. New shop: driver. It is 3x3, but could be 1x1 with a higher power requirement. Needs 6 mechanisms and 6 blocks. Bsase power is 100.

Wall segments are unsuporting but blocking (like a door of floodgate), and can be walked on (like a raised bridge if i remember correctly) removing any concers about what to do with attached constructions. They just collaps. They exsist in 2 states, attached an unattached. Unattached act like any other unbuilt funiture. To attach wall segments build a driver shop, assign a build direction and start huffing wall segments over to it. The wall segments add 5 to 10 power per segment, and extend out in the direction specified. If the leading segment is not a wall segment but instead is a bit, then the wall is not stopped by consrtuctions or natural walls. These are simply destroyed (no rock left behind). Similarly any funiture, buildings, other connected wall segments, items or units are also destroyed. If it is a wall segment leading walls of any kind stop all progess. Workshops, built funiture and the like are unbuilt and pushed along like normal items, taking mild durrability damage. Units are also bludgeoned as they are pushed. Stuff caught between a wall segment and another wall are crushed.

Once you have attached as many segments as you want you could then "lock" the shop. What this means is that when the workshop is set to retract instead of deattaching segments, causing the shop to get more cluttered and work slower, the segments are instead passed out the other side still attached. They will move as far as they can untill they are blocked. Anything between the segment and the wall is, again, crushed.

The shop extension is controled by a lever, and is either extending or retracting. Wall segments are requested at the shop, and are selected like building constructions. There should also be a queue function, so you could say get these 3 wood walls, this microline wall, and that gold one, in that order. As long as the shop is set to extend mode new walls brought to the shop are automaticaly added and extended.
 
With a setup like this we could build multiple types of objects, such as retracting briges, multi tile and multi level gates (just stack shops on top of eache other and hook them to the same lever) huge floodgates, smashing room death traps, crude lever operated elivators, simple tunnel boring machines, fast water movers and crude piston pumps (along with a way to raise water to a level without a pump on it) and the original pile driver idea. And since none of these are specialised functions it relay keep up with the whole sandbox feel of the consruction enviroment.

Issues: i do not know if the map data is capable of storing the attachment associations required. Objet/liquid pushing also may not be handled currently, since the only instance of moving tiles i know of destroys liqids in the way, instead of pushing them out of the way. Other than that it looks like the game engine can already handle what this needs to work.

[varkarrus]

Moving walls should be able to move more than one space if you built shafts for them.

[lucusLoC]

see above quote.

[The Architect]

Wow, this is a really well-thought out way to implement a feature many people have been clamouring for, for years. Props! I came in here totally expecting to link a few threads from forum search and say "this idea has come up before", but you have really thought this through well and your suggestions seem very valuable.

Locus, the reason this topic is a valuable addition to the forum was listed above. Please don't try to kill it. It's much better than some repetitive suggestion for wall movement.

[silhouette]

man, deffinitly want this!

If we have this added then i can finally add a stop/start connection to my mechanical fortresses!

e.g....

Code: [Select]

#######
##.|.##
==.|.==
##.|.##
######## = wall
| = horizontal axel.
= horizontal axel
. = empty spave...

Would make something great for adventure mode...
make huge mazes that confuse the shit out of you...
make huge mechanical contraptions where if you press the wrong lever you get squished by a falling mechanical part... or burnt by magma etc...

[lucusLoC]

not trying to derail, actually. my intention was to move the wall moving discussion to the other thread, and leave the rotating one here.

the quote was so that people would know what the other thread was about.

[Thanshin]

Code: [Select]

#######
##.|.##
==.|.==
##.|.##
######## = wall
| = horizontal axel.
= horizontal axel
. = empty spave...

Axels. That's a good idea!

With axels, gearboxes and a rotating plate you can transmit the same source of power to different machines with a lever. You could have a waterwheel farm and multiple pump setups that you alternate.

The simplest method, put a windmill over the gearbox and with just a gearbox and a lever you've got three optional power routes and an off position.

Code: [Select]

machine1
##|##
##|##
##G#-machine2
#####
##|##
machine3

Bonus points for whoever manages to think of a contraption that uses the power to activate the rotation of the plate (through pump and pressure plate, for example).

not trying to derail, actually. my intention was to move the wall moving discussion to the other thread, and leave the rotating one here.

I actually kind of agree that the thread should've been about the rotating platform alone. I'll explain in the original post.

[TheBeardyMan]

When building the rotating plate, there should be an option to floor the entire plate, using more stone and leaving its surface walkable unless a blocking construction or building is built on it, or to build only the central boss, using less stone and leaving the area open. So you could have a bridge crossing a deep pit that can be switched between N/S and E/W.