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[SirHoneyBadger]

Quick suggestion: Allow those annoying stones we're constantly mining out, to be used as single-shot (very likely to break on impact, to the applause of many), extremely short range (1 square distance across, unlimited z levels down, additional z levels meaning  splattage), "thrown" (but more like dropped) weapons.

This would ofcourse require the nerfing of throwing in general. It might also be dangerous to the attacker (perhaps only if not wearing a helmet?), as well as the target, but what's an epidemic of skull fractures and brain trauma, compared to getting rid of masses of stones every seige?

This might be handled in a somewhat similar way to seige engines, except that the dwarf functions as the "engine", being assigned to the "drop rocks on hostiles" duty, and with the ammunition being the nearest rock pile.

This might also help allieve various seige improvement concerns, and nerf the difficulty of the early game slightly, since it would allow a player to quickly form an (atleast more) effective defensive force at the nearest elevated terrain, which players could in short time, and no doubt interestingly, improve.

Additionally, it would atleast make having tons of stones around that much more attractive, and hopefully pave the way for real "murderholes" and similar seige defensive tactics.

Balancing would be brought to the table by the fact that all these dwarf "engines" are still, well, dwarfs. Needy, greedy, attention-deficit, self-destructive, inaccurate and inconsistent weapons, in other words.

[Thanshin]

I wouldn't like dwarves throwing the entire rocks, but I'd sign the possibility of crafting throwable stone weapons which would turn one rock into a stack of maybe 20 throwable stones.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Thanshin, not trying to shoot down your suggestion, but...I think you may be missing the point of "hey we've got hundreds and hundreds of stones everywhere that we can't get rid of or use" by suggesting that we turn them into thousands and thousands.

[The Architect]

Ok, so not like your idea doesn't have some good points. But when I read it, all I think is this:

"Use catapults!"

I don't really know how else to respond. The idea of non-military dwarves needing to be at a specific place at a specific time within close range of an enemy just seems beyond realistic. Just think of how hard it can be to get a vital lever pulled, even with micromanagement! It seems like a feature with extremely limited usefulness as well.

Then we have the catapult feature, which is not only deadly to your enemies but can get rid of as much stone as the operator can reach within a given time frame. Using a less deadly manual catapult, and justifying it with the idea of getting rid of stone, seems a little odd. You can use a garbage compactor if you have stone problems, and if you want to put it to use instead there are tons of productive things you can do with it. This seems like it would be a nifty idea but a useless feature. It would certainly flesh out the idea of sieges, but it's kind of like adding the option to fling non-stone items from catapults. It's not particularly useful, so why spend time programming it?

[SirHoneyBadger]

...It's not particularly useful, so why spend time programming it?

Because of the immense sense of satisfaction and entertainment I would personally feel on the (however rare) occasion one of my dwarfs actually dropped a stone on someone's head.

Stone...

falling

    ing

    ing

    ing
     .
     .
     .
     .
     .
     O

*head* <---someone's head.

[The Architect]

Haha. Like I said, it's a very neat idea, but rather a useless mechanic. If you want to hurt someone by dropping stones on them, we have very nifty catapults. If you want to get rid of stone, you can do all kinds of things with it.

I'm not sure there is really any other point to be made here. Of course I could be wrong, so I'll keep reading.

[SirHoneyBadger]

When you say "useless mechanic", do you mean useless like roughly half the stuff we have in the game now (I could start with fish dissection if you need a helpful reminder), or useless like roughly half the requests on the boards?

It's Fun to drop stones on peoples' heads.

People. Heads. Fun. To drop.

There's no reason I can see that a dwarf couldn't do it without going through a catapult.

Is there any reason you can give that they wouldn't physically be able to drop a stone on someone's head?

If you gave me a stone, and told me to drop it on your head, I'd have a legal obligation to object. Our dwarfs are not under such a mandate.

[The Architect]

Look, my objections are already posted. I have said repeatedly that it's a nifty idea, and you keep telling me that it's a nifty idea. It's a nifty idea. There are obvious objections that I've already recited. I don't know how to be any more clear that I agree with you about how nifty the idea is, or about what my objections are.

At this point I can't help but think that you are being intentionally comic, and I laugh Sir. Well done, you have dragged an additional two posts with absolutely no substance out of me. I am laughing!

[Neonivek]

My major problem is the sheer rediculousness of it all.

By all means a large creature should be able to hurl these stones, or they could be hurled over the sides of walls, or something else.

But these are rather sizable stones. Using them as throwing weapons are a bit odd.

[SirHoneyBadger]

The Architect: Since you're the one explaining and admitting that you're posting things of no substance, let me simply request that you stop now, and either comment in a more helpful way, or find better use for your free time.

Neonivek and anyone else out there actually wanting to discuss this, instead of making fun of it:

Well, the mechanic of actually throwing them, as I tried to explain, is really a misnomer. Dropping them is much more semantically appropriate.

These wouldn't, in other words, be dwarf pitchers firing huge boulders to deep left field.

They might get a few feet of distance at best. 1 single square distance at best. Nothing very much more active than the hauling they already do, except it's done in an offensive manner here.

In the main, we're talking chucking them directly down on the enemy below. Occasionally, you might end up with a situation of chucking them directly down on the enemy's foot, as the enemy basically gets in the way.

[The Architect]

But these are rather sizable stones. Using them as throwing weapons are a bit odd.

If dwarves can haul them around, I don't see how it would be a problem to drop them on someone. I suppose they would only be able to drop them in adjacent squares or through a "murder hole" (though they were not made for it) which they could stand on.

[The Architect]

The Architect: Since you're the one explaining and admitting that you're posting things of no substance, let me simply request that you stop now, and either comment in a more helpful way, or find better use for your free time.

Chill. You're creating an argument out of nothing. If you take offense to the fact that I didn't think your idea was practical, don't make it a problem. Keep it to yourself. You repeatedly told me that the idea was cool, and I said that in my first post anyway. You repeatedly asked me what my objections were, and I put them in the first post as well. I never said my posts were of no substance or unrelated, I said that my objections are already posted and I'm not repeating them. For your benefit, as you seem to be intent on turning it into an argument and wearing me out with sheer stubbornness, I'm just going to start doing this.

Ok, so not like your idea doesn't have some good points. But when I read it, all I think is this:

"Use catapults!"

I don't really know how else to respond. The idea of non-military dwarves needing to be at a specific place at a specific time within close range of an enemy just seems beyond realistic. Just think of how hard it can be to get a vital lever pulled, even with micromanagement! It seems like a feature with extremely limited usefulness as well.

Then we have the catapult feature, which is not only deadly to your enemies but can get rid of as much stone as the operator can reach within a given time frame. Using a less deadly manual catapult, and justifying it with the idea of getting rid of stone, seems a little odd. You can use a garbage compactor if you have stone problems, and if you want to put it to use instead there are tons of productive things you can do with it. This seems like it would be a nifty idea but a useless feature. It would certainly flesh out the idea of sieges, but it's kind of like adding the option to fling non-stone items from catapults. It's not particularly useful, so why spend time programming it?

Haha. Like I said, it's a very neat idea, but rather a useless mechanic. If you want to hurt someone by dropping stones on them, we have very nifty catapults. If you want to get rid of stone, you can do all kinds of things with it.

[Neonivek]

But these are rather sizable stones. Using them as throwing weapons are a bit odd.

If dwarves can haul them around, I don't see how it would be a problem to drop them on someone. I suppose they would only be able to drop them in adjacent squares or through a "murder hole" (though they were not made for it) which they could stand on.

I already included Murderhole as an exception.

Hauling around these huge rocks and "Throwing" (not dropping) them is a bit odd and bad for the back.

I am not making FUN of the suggestion...

The heaviest throwing weapon I am aware of is the Hammer (The round one) and it shouldn't be more then what? 25 pounds?

These are boulders or Lumps of Rubble. They arn't so casually thrown aside.

[The Architect]

Then you are in agreement with both of us, Neonivek. I think the language barrier is the only problem here

He was accusing me of making fun of the topic, not you. The truth is that no one is making fun of him or his idea, so you don't need to worry about that.

[Arrkhal]

I think it might work better if it were an improved version of the existing stone-fall trap.  Make them work from more than 1 z-level up, and make them loadable from the top.