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[Gorobay]

Okay, I have made two templates. They work like this:

Code: [Select]

{{ark begin}}
{{ark row|<name>|<URL>|<raws>|<status>}}
|}
How's that?

All the information for the raws must be there somewhere, whether in the raws column or elsewhere. I think adding more columns would complicate the issue, unless the raws script will be more advanced than I imagine it.

[Pizdzius]

Hmm... it's not really feasible to put sprites on the wiki as individual 16x16 images.  It'd just be a pain and someone would have to reassemble them into sprite sheets later.  I guess my recommendation would be to just start making sprite sheets -- maybe one sheet per wiki page, roughly?  You can post them in this thread to keep us updated, of course.

Yes sir. I'll start as soon as I get some time off work/school and post something done here, to see if it fits and you accept the projects.

[Neonivek]

Something that allows an indication of when the sprite is done would be good.

[Lancensis]

Sorry I haven't been around a whole lot, but at least I finally added some more frogs. I see someone's already added a bunch of salamanders, do they want me to leave them to it, or find some myself?

I've been thinking about the possibility of adding mites/ticks and other parasites, as a vermin swarm with contact posion. Is this too bizarre?

[Footkerchief]

Okay, I have made two templates. They work like this:

Code: [Select]

{{ark begin}}
{{ark row|<name>|<URL>|<raws>|<status>}}
|}
How's that?

All the information for the raws must be there somewhere, whether in the raws column or elsewhere. I think adding more columns would complicate the issue, unless the raws script will be more advanced than I imagine it.

I'd arrange it as name-status-URL-raws, but that's just nitpicking.  Although now I'm wondering if we should start putting names in the raws' singular-plural-adjective format, and make that string a hyperlink so we don't need a separate URL column...

I do think the template override column is important because it'll let us see at a glance which creatures aren't using the standard templates.  For other extra columns... as long as biome tokens were separated by line breaks, the script wouldn't have to do anything fancy. 

The main benefits of putting certain tag groups in their own columns are:
- can see more stuff at a glance
- prevents people from placing those tags inconsistently in the raws column, which could make them hard to find

The main drawbacks:
- limited width/number of columns
- somewhat confusing/inconsistent to have columns for only some of the tags

I dunno.  Anyone else have an opinion on this stuff?  Speak up now, etc.

I've been thinking about the possibility of adding mites/ticks and other parasites, as a vermin swarm with contact posion. Is this too bizarre?

The contact poison is a little bizarre, yeah.  It should probably wait until Toady puts in something sensible for parasites.  Also, mites are probably just too small, although the larger ticks would be fine.

[Gorobay]

I'd arrange it as name-status-URL-raws, but that's just nitpicking.  Although now I'm wondering if we should start putting names in the raws' singular-plural-adjective format, and make that string a hyperlink so we don't need a separate URL column...

I do think the template override column is important because it'll let us see at a glance which creatures aren't using the standard templates.

I redid the column arrangement. Adding an override column will be simple once we have anything to override.

Code: [Select]

{{ark begin}}
{{ark row|<name>|<URL>|<status>|<raws>}}
{{ark row|<name>|<URL>|<status>|<raws>}}
<...>
|}


For other extra columns... as long as biome tokens were separated by line breaks, the script wouldn't have to do anything fancy. 

I know a script can parse a list; my concern is that it might be complicated to interweave the tags correctly if they are scattered, some in special columns, some in a general "Raws" column. But maybe it won't be.

- limited width/number of columns

If this is an issue, it is possible for a template to receive parameters and not display them. That way, the information would be in the source code, but it would not clutter the chart.

[Footkerchief]

Some followups from Toady on creature variations and the necessity of tag ordering in the next version:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

How does CV_REMOVE_TAG operate on tags that can occur multiple times, like BIOME and ATTACK?  My guess is that [CV_REMOVE_TAG:ATTACK] will remove all attacks, but [CV_REMOVE_TAG:ATTACK:PUNCH] will just remove that one attack.

Yeah, that's right.

Can you specify multiple TARGET-REPLACEMENT pairs within a single [CV_CONVERT_TAG]?

Right now you'd have to set up a new one with the same master for each conversion.

Thanks again (for the feature and the explanations).  This will all come in very handy, although yeah, the invisible cursor is weird.  The whole setup is vaguely reminiscent of a Turing machine or something.

Yeah, it's strange.  I couldn't think of another fast way to do it, because of the tag order crap.  I think the main ordering issues are that you need to define the body before you start placing tissues, you need the creature to be named before you use any material templates (or it won't prefix the creature's name properly), and castes should be created after you've defined all the shared caste tokens if you don't want to double them up.

That's the reason I went to the body tag before deleting it in the fish man -- I needed the body tag to be inserted in the same place, and a giant convert would be clunkier (I think, or maybe I just didn't want to look up the cave fish body to see what needed to be converted).  Then I went to the end to place the castes, then back to the top to place the name (before the materials).  The population and cluster numbers didn't need to be at the top, but I have traditionally been putting them up there.

I redid the column arrangement.

Oh, nifty.  Here's what it looks like, for anyone who hasn't seen it.  Is <br> the only way to force line breaks within the tables?  That could make it annoying to edit raws on there.  What we really need is a WYSIWYG raws editor.

If this is an issue, it is possible for a template to receive parameters and not display them. That way, the information would be in the source code, but it would not clutter the chart.

That's very worth considering.  Judging from what you did with the URL, the template can display multiple parameters as a single column.  Maybe it could automatically merge the separate raws parameters to display them as a single column?

[Gorobay]

So far, the examples we have of CREATURE_VARIATIONs are of changes applied to an existing creature. Can we have an example of a CREATURE_VARIATION used without a base creature?

Is <br> the only way to force line breaks within the tables?  That could make it annoying to edit raws on there.

Fortunately, you can just use a line break, e.g.

Code: [Select]

{{ark row|Generic lemur|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemuridae|not started|[CREATURE:LEMUR_GENERIC]
[DESCRIPTION:Just your average lemur.]
[PREFSTRING:agility]}}


That's very worth considering.  Judging from what you did with the URL, the template can display multiple parameters as a single column.  Maybe it could automatically merge the separate raws parameters to display them as a single column?

Definitely doable. The only potential problem is ordering stuff with the invisible cursor, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

[Neonivek]

Wait... Should we be making Animal-man versions of creatures that don't do so well?

Actually to be truthful I am still confused by this whole template thing.

Do you make it before or after? do you attach it to the creature?

UGH I am entirely confused.

Update on insects: I am starting tommorow

[Gorobay]

Wait... Should we be making Animal-man versions of creatures that don't do so well?

I think that's beyond the scope of the project, at least for now. We should concentrate on the real-world creatures first.

[Neonivek]

Wait... Should we be making Animal-man versions of creatures that don't do so well?

I think that's beyond the scope of the project, at least for now. We should concentrate on the real-world creatures first.

That isn't exactly what I meant. I'd think a proper conversion would be wanted at some point.

[Gorobay]

That isn't exactly what I meant. I'd think a proper conversion would be wanted at some point.

I'm not sure what you mean by "proper conversion". Are you proposing changing CREATURE_VARIATION:ANIMAL_PERSON to work better? Or do you mean to do it manually?

[Thursday Postal]

Question:

Lungfish and Coelacanths fit in neither of the fish classifications on the main Ark page, but are in their own class: Sarcopterygii. Since the representatives of this class are few (probably those two are the only interesting ones) should they be given their own group or stuck with the bony fishes? I put in coelacanth before I realized that they are in a separate class.

[therahedwig]

Hmm... it's not really feasible to put sprites on the wiki as individual 16x16 images.  It'd just be a pain and someone would have to reassemble them into sprite sheets later.  I guess my recommendation would be to just start making sprite sheets -- maybe one sheet per wiki page, roughly?  You can post them in this thread to keep us updated, of course.

Yes sir. I'll start as soon as I get some time off work/school and post something done here, to see if it fits and you accept the projects.

Ahaha... I was a lurker till I registered a few minutes ago...

And a hile back I saw the ark project and thought to myself: Hey, that's really neat... I wanna help! But my animal knowledge kinda sucks, and I've never modded anything before. BUT I CAN DO PIXELART!

And then I made a few sprites:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The first row is the Afrotheria, second Xenathra, third and fourth were to be reserved for the primates and the rodents(there were so many of them, and doing a full family becomes problematic when two species really resemble eachother(The various manatees, it's hard to tell, but they are really different and based on their wiki-pictures)) I did make a headstart on the Lagomorphs, but kinda stopped there...
I use a program that allows me to only use 256 colours, but is otherwise great for pixelart, just so you know.

When I saw your post, I figured I should post this quickly, to save you some trouble.
I hope they'll be of some use.

[Thursday Postal]

Neat! I suggest you keep track of which is which though, because the lists will change.