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[SethCreiyd]

Or LARGE_PREDATOR for even more fun  ^_^

A thought occurs:  CAN_CIV may dictate whether or not an entity participates in trade, siege, or other Fortress Mode endeavors.

Back to the laboratory.

[Ieb]

So wait, if one was to make all semimega/megabeast critters have entity mentions, you'd have a bunch of them start living in a cave, have kids, and still qualify for being megabeasts that randomly go and try to kill you?

Or would that make them suddenly appear in one huge siege/ambush wave, or behave like normal megabeasts except you could have generated dragons arriving along the pre-existing history ones?

EDIT: Hurm. Looks like the MEGABEAST tag also implies they're unable to breed. The tags for it are there, but this gen'ed world shows that the megabeasts did act like normal civ's, and fought even each other, but they're all most of them are dead without kids now.

EDIT2: However, a few of them did survive the worldgen. Because they're cave-dwellers, they don't show up in the embark screen list of civs though, so I'll have to play a bit to see whether or not I can get them to appear, and if they do, how do they function. SCIENCE!

EDIT3: Well, this is what happened.
Linky!

There wasn't any "THE MINOTAUR THIS-AND-THAT HAS ARRIVED", and they currently operate like normal thieves. Except with the building destroyer tags they have, they're currently smashing every piece of furniture I have into bits. Although now that I think about it, I did just copy the kobold entity tags. I bet I forgot the ITEMTHIEF tag there too. Although I imagine it wouldn't have changed the situation much, if at all. They'd still appear like normal enemies.

[Deon]

Did you add [CHILD:x] tokens to them? I thought it's the reason why megabeasts do not breed: they don't have children tokens.

[Ieb]

I did. Even to bronze colossi, along giving them genders.
Giants and such had CHILD entries before, but they still didn't feel like having kids during 300 years of history.

[LegoLord]

I believe the [CAN_CIV] tag prevents creatures from spawning normally.

No.  At least that's not the only thing, if it is.  It's primarily the lack of spawn-biome tags on the creature entries.  Maybe can-civ has something to do with it as well, but I doubt it.

Did you actually test this?

Not until just now, but some hiccups I had whilst developing the clown mod suggested that was very likely.  Although further testing just now shows that can civ does seem to prevent spawning in nature.  I added it to jesters, which had been spawning just fine before, and after generating a new world they ceased appearing.

[Deon]

It's said that "intelligent" has "can_civ" inbuilt... How do Merpersons appear then, or does it mean that the wiki is wrong about INTELLIGENT having "can civ" inbuilt and does it mean that it's not a natural tag which is on dwarves, elves and such, but rather a rare tag which is not used at all in vanilla?

[SethCreiyd]

In vanilla, Kobolds have [CAN_CIV] and [CAN_LEARN] instead of [INTELLIGENT].  They do not randomly spawn outside of entity-based behavior such as thievery.

Merpeople, on the other hand, have [CAN_LEARN] and [CAN_SPEAK] but not [CAN_CIV], and they do appear on the map randomly.

[INTELLIGENT] certainly appears to encompass the three tokens it is said to.

[Ieb]

Another thought occurred.
If a creature only has that entity mention, and none of the intelligence/civilization capable tags, is it possible to butcher and tan the enemies who attack you?

[3]

Assuming the ethics are set up correctly (I'm not even sure anymore if those have any effect), it's possible to butcher races that have CAN_CIV/CAN_LEARN(/CAN_SPEAK), but possibly not those that have INTELLIGENT.

[Deon]

In vanilla, Kobolds have [CAN_CIV] and [CAN_LEARN] instead of [INTELLIGENT].  They do not randomly spawn outside of entity-based behavior such as thievery.

Merpeople, on the other hand, have [CAN_LEARN] and [CAN_SPEAK] but not [CAN_CIV], and they do appear on the map randomly.

[INTELLIGENT] certainly appears to encompass the three tokens it is said to.

Hmm, my merpersons are intelligent and they still spawned ok... Weird. I am going to check it again.

[darkflagrance]

The [MEGABEAST] tag causes megabeasts not to have children during worldgen; however, they will be able to breed during Fortress mode if they have a [CHILD:X] tag.

[Untelligent]

Has anyone succeeded in getting civ creatures to spawn randomly?

I've removed [CAN_CIV] and added the following tags:

[BIOME:ANY_TEMPERATE]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:2:3]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:1]
[FREQUENCY:5]


Can't get them to spawn yet.

[SethCreiyd]

Try raising the frequency to 100 -- that way they're pretty much guaranteed to spawn, if they will.

[darkflagrance]

Indeed; in my custom creature forts, stuff I give [FREQUENCY:5] don't seem to show up more than once every ten years.

[Untelligent]

Just tried that, still haven't seen anything.


However... I swapped their biome from ANY_TEMPERATE to SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM. According to the world_sites_and_pops file, dwarves and elves and stuff are starting to live in the caves among the spiders and werewolves. Perhaps I just haven't been waiting long enough... Or perhaps there's something special about caves. Got an idea, though. (To the batmobile! *wooosh*)