Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[CobaltKobold]

presently, since fluid qtys not tracked, you can fill wskins or e'en barrels from pools of blood.

Barrels hold 100?

[DDR]

It'd seem logical that they hold 7 fluid, but it really needs to be more than that. 100 seems a little high, how about 25 fluid?

And... how would you empty it?

Perhaps water should only be carry-able in buckets, one water to a bucket, and no stacking. It's something best held in a cistern several z-levels deep. The more digging, the more dwarvenly. 

[Stargrasper]

It'd seem logical that they hold 7 fluid, but it really needs to be more than that. 100 seems a little high, how about 25 fluid?

And... how would you empty it?

Perhaps water should only be carry-able in buckets, one water to a bucket, and no stacking. It's something best held in a cistern several z-levels deep. The more digging, the more dwarvenly. 

Don't buckets hold seven water now?  At least when they spill it while carrying water to the injured, I thought I saw seven units of water on the ground, granted it's been awhile since I've looked.

[KenboCalrissian]

I'm interested, but lose the dirty dishes.  I don't see what they add to the game besides one more tedious complication.  Greywater, however, is a nice approach to introducing sewage systems.

This obviously needs a new type of zone: Waste water ("Sewage" is such a better name, but it could be misleading since we aren't dealing with bodily wastes here).  This functions just like a pond, but only accepts greywater - likewise, ponds would not accept greywater.  You don't want to contaminate your drinking supply, so this distinction is key.

[Stargrasper]

I'm interested, but lose the dirty dishes.  I don't see what they add to the game besides one more tedious complication.  Greywater, however, is a nice approach to introducing sewage systems.

This obviously needs a new type of zone: Waste water ("Sewage" is such a better name, but it could be misleading since we aren't dealing with bodily wastes here).  This functions just like a pond, but only accepts greywater - likewise, ponds would not accept greywater.  You don't want to contaminate your drinking supply, so this distinction is key.

Best to make that 'no dumping in not waste zones unless there are no waste zones available'.  I foresee problems when people don't make a waste zone and then either all buckets/barrels/fluid containers are full of greywater or the water just gets dumped on the ground wherever, awaiting a dwarf with cleaning to deal with it(which subsequently creates more greywater)...

Also, to introduce dishes implies we need the ability to create ceramics.  It's odd... we have wood, stone, metal, glass, leather, numerous other materials (I've seen cups and plates made of all of these in the real world) ... and we never had the ability to makes pots/barrels/whatever out of fired clay... which is even more strange when you remember that we have both a kiln and a magma kiln.  I may have to look if somebody's ever suggested this before...

[Draco18s]

Don't buckets hold seven water now?  At least when they spill it while carrying water to the injured, I thought I saw seven units of water on the ground, granted it's been awhile since I've looked.

Buckets, when filled from a pit, take 1/7 water worth of depth and create a bucket full of 10 units of water, each 1 unit of which is equivalent to 1 drink (1 unit of booze).

[CobaltKobold]

Also, to introduce dishes implies we need the ability to create ceramics.  It's odd... we have wood, stone, metal, glass, leather, numerous other materials (I've seen cups and plates made of all of these in the real world) ... and we never had the ability to makes pots/barrels/whatever out of fired clay... which is even more strange when you remember that we have both a kiln and a magma kiln.  I may have to look if somebody's ever suggested this before...

# Bloat77, CLAY, MUD, ADOBE STUFF, (Future): Can use the kiln, have glazes, etc. Bricks.

[Stargrasper]

Also, to introduce dishes implies we need the ability to create ceramics.  It's odd... we have wood, stone, metal, glass, leather, numerous other materials (I've seen cups and plates made of all of these in the real world) ... and we never had the ability to makes pots/barrels/whatever out of fired clay... which is even more strange when you remember that we have both a kiln and a magma kiln.  I may have to look if somebody's ever suggested this before...

# Bloat77, CLAY, MUD, ADOBE STUFF, (Future): Can use the kiln, have glazes, etc. Bricks.

I mostly just find it ironic that we have glass before ceramics.  Ceramics are downright pre-historic and usually one of the earliest signs of primitive civilization.

Don't buckets hold seven water now?  At least when they spill it while carrying water to the injured, I thought I saw seven units of water on the ground, granted it's been awhile since I've looked.

Buckets, when filled from a pit, take 1/7 water worth of depth and create a bucket full of 10 units of water, each 1 unit of which is equivalent to 1 drink (1 unit of booze).

So... apparently barrels should be able to hold 70 units.  It would make sense if they could hold a 7/7 tile and you can, with buckets, apparently divide that ten ways...

[Silverionmox]

Standard barrels don't occupy a full square and therefore ought to hold less than the same square completely filled with liquid, 35, 49, 50 or something in that vicinity. It would be inconsistent to find that the contents of a wine cellar would actually flood out if the barrels were broken. Of course, there will be barrels of different sizes.

[Stargrasper]

Standard barrels don't occupy a full square and therefore ought to hold less than the same square completely filled with liquid, 35, 49, 50 or something in that vicinity. It would be inconsistent to find that the contents of a wine cellar would actually flood out if the barrels were broken. Of course, there will be barrels of different sizes.

True, but Dwarven logic is like Indian time*, it's not supposed to be rigid.  But yes, it makes about as much sense as everything else is DF.  Ask yourself whether that's a good or bad thing.  I might consider that a good thing, but that's just because I strongly prefer wine over beer.

So, has anyone come up with a good use for greywater that actually applied to DF?  Sure, we can irrigate with it, but it's not nearly as easy as using river water.  But that seems to be the only suggested use that's viable for DF's timeframe.  Would we REALLY want it to just be a waste product that we have to somehow either store eternally or get off of the map...?

* Indian time is an old (and arguably offensive) term used to describe the very relaxed Native American perceptions of time.  When they say "Meet at the Council Oak on Wednesday at Noon", they actually mean "Meet at the Council Oak anytime this week."

[DDR]

Water storage is a little special.  A barrel of water, when destroyed, would probably leave 4/7 or 5/7 full tile. Perhaps barrels hold 50 or 60 water, with one water being 1/10th of a tile full. A bucket holds 10 water. A sick person drinks one water, but washing needs 10 water. A fairly active waste system would need a lot of water for flow, and that would require a fairly high demand for washing up.

Does anyone know if the water system has changed in the next release toady is planing? We may be debating an obsolete issue here.

I'm interested, but lose the dirty dishes.  I don't see what they add to the game besides one more tedious complication.  Greywater, however, is a nice approach to introducing sewage systems.

I was hoping dishes would be automatically queued at a sink, and could be stack-handled. Any dwarf with 'cleaning' enabled would go at them, so the whole process would be fairly automatic. It is true, they are another complication... but I think it is intuitive, and that is OK. Why do you feel it is a bad thing?

[Draco18s]

* Indian time is an old (and arguably offensive) term used to describe the very relaxed Native American perceptions of time.  When they say "Meet at the Council Oak on Wednesday at Noon", they actually mean "Meet at the Council Oak anytime this week."

There's a few other terms for it, none of which I'm recalling offhand, but I've meet people like that.  The idea is that "Wednesday at Noon"* is when you should plan on being there, but it doesn't really matter, as we're not starting until everyone shows up.

*Vague concept of when "noon" actually occurs.

[Stargrasper]

* Indian time is an old (and arguably offensive) term used to describe the very relaxed Native American perceptions of time.  When they say "Meet at the Council Oak on Wednesday at Noon", they actually mean "Meet at the Council Oak anytime this week."

There's a few other terms for it, none of which I'm recalling offhand, but I've meet people like that.  The idea is that "Wednesday at Noon"* is when you should plan on being there, but it doesn't really matter, as we're not starting until everyone shows up.

*Vague concept of when "noon" actually occurs.

Like the one speaker who was scheduled to arrive on Monday and didn't show until Wednesday.  Thankfully, in AIS courses, you get used to going with the flow.  It does make for a nice and relaxed environment, though.  You just have to realize what you're in for.

[Pilsu]

If a human can wash just fine with a bucket of water, I don't see why a dwarf would need more.

[DDR]

I expect it's a luxury thing. I could clean myself with a bucket of water. I do clean myself with a nice, long, hot shower. (And soap.)

Nobles could requests baths, and it would make the masses happy. I'd like to see a way to designate rooms as 'baths', and have a giant roman-like public bath thing going on. Indecent today, but I think the dwarves would sympathise with the Romans. (One could make the case we still have public baths, but we label them 'beaches', and, if we're feeling specific, 'nude beaches'. )

What concentration of greywater will dwarves bathe in, maximum? I'm thinking 5% of max greyness. Greyness does not evaporate, but gets more and more concentrated if the water it's in evaporates. Greywater only holds around 10% dirt, after being used to clean up a dirty floor.

One way of handling greywater could be just to make a really, really large pit and 'deal with it later'. This strategy has worked rather well for our civilisation in general. Old mines? Install a few floodgates, and call it 'sanitary pit'. Prisoners? Dump the cage off the edge of the sanitary pit, just to be undignified. "We're drowning... and it's CHUNKY!"