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Author Topic: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi  (Read 2581 times)

DDR

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Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« on: January 17, 2010, 05:57:49 am »

Dwarven shit sounds like a crude idea. I don't like it at all.
Piss is too useful in this tech-frame to be implemented in a non-squick manner. There would just be more yammering about 'ooo, it's for tanning hides'. And jello, according to one thread.

HOWEVER: This is the extreme. There is a middle everyone who spent any time washing dishes is familiar with: greywater.

Prong 1:
Eating now produces a dirty dish, if a dish has been manufactured. This is like crafts, and can be made of stone, wood, or metal. Dwarves get unhappy without them. Dishes are washed at a SINK, which is fed by a dwarf with a bucket. Water is handled as it is currently, with buckets. One level of water is used, and one level of greywater is produced. Greywater is either drained directly below the sink, or can be hauled away with another bucket.

Prong 2:
Dwarves can bathe and wash clothes in a TUB. Two or three units of water are used, and two or three units of greywater are produced. SINKS and TUBS are like beds or chairs - they are community-used unless assigned to a dwarf. This also gets rid of the 10-year crust a dwarf tends to accumulate. Tubs are metal or stone.

Details:
The building holds up to 6 tiles of water before being declared FULL/CLOGGED, and being shut down. If the water building has been PLUGED, the greywater is contained inside and a task for hauling the water away. If it is UNPLUGGED, the greywater flows like normal water.

BALANCE:
Water evaporates or can be dumped manually for the first 30 dwarves or so without incident. From then on, things get muddy. Therefore, it is not an impediment to learning the game. It is something that comes into effect after you've learned enough to have fun. Water is automatically dumped in the nearest water source.

Technical Approach:
Perhaps a flag could be added to a tile of water, indicating if it is greywater or pure water. Can the functionality for stagnant water be reused here? Ultimately, an integer value could be used representing a concentration of filth. Dwarves will drink water with a purity of, say, ten. Washing something produces a stack of water with a filth of one or two thousand.

ALSO:
Lynch me, but I think water should not be drain-able from the edges of a map. Part of the Fun of dealing with greywater should be making some sort of system, large evaporation ponds, a 20 z-level pump system to the surface, bottomless pit, whatever works.


DUH:
You may link below to the half-dozen threads where someone had suggested this before, and why it won't work. Or, you can surprise me and discuss.

Super-awesome dozen-boston-creme-doughnuts-for-you level of awesomeness (or equivalent, perhaps you prefer maple?) for Toady:
Magma-warmed water produces a happy thought.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 02:54:44 pm by DDR »
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Draco18s

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Re: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2010, 11:07:00 am »

Now this is an idea I could get behind.  Greywater has all kinds of uses.  Blackwater does not.
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Pilsu

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Re: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2010, 12:43:44 pm »

Wouldn't black- and greywater be handled with the water contaminant system?
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Stargrasper

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Re: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2010, 01:52:53 pm »

Wouldn't black- and greywater be handled with the water contaminant system?

Only if you have something appropriate to contaminate it with.  That and you need appropriate uses or means of cleaning it (as I recall, greywater can be filtered to make it safe to drink), but all this may be outside our timeframe (~pre1400).

And I strongly oppose the idea of not being able to drain off the edge of the map.  There's no reason to make water management that difficult.  Remember, this game is about detail, not difficultly.  Difficulty is for the mods to hash out.
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CobaltKobold

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Re: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2010, 01:55:31 pm »

ALSO:
Lynch me, but I think water should not be drain-able from the edges of a map. Part of the Fun of dealing with greywater should be making some sort of system, large evaporation ponds, a 20 z-level pump system to the surface, bottomless pit, whatever works.

DUH:
You may link below to the half-dozen threads where someone had suggested this before, and why it won't work. Or, you can surprise me and discuss.

River enters map, is not permitted to drain. Welcome to Waterworld!
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Stargrasper

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Re: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2010, 02:01:52 pm »

ALSO:
Lynch me, but I think water should not be drain-able from the edges of a map. Part of the Fun of dealing with greywater should be making some sort of system, large evaporation ponds, a 20 z-level pump system to the surface, bottomless pit, whatever works.

DUH:
You may link below to the half-dozen threads where someone had suggested this before, and why it won't work. Or, you can surprise me and discuss.

River enters map, is not permitted to drain. Welcome to Waterworld!

Not necessarily, water pressure doesn't allow for flooding above the level of the source.  That being said, I still think it's a bad idea to not allow it.
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DDR

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Re: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2010, 02:54:17 pm »

OK, water flows off the edge of a map. :)

There was a prong I forgot above.
Prong 3: When cleaning up the fortress (vomit splatters, blood puddles, etc.) dwarves use one tile of water and produce one tile of greywater.
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Silverionmox

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Re: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2010, 03:50:21 pm »

Now this is an idea I could get behind.  Greywater has all kinds of uses.  Blackwater does not.
It's not because we have taken up the habit to flush away excrement with drinking water that people in other places and time had that luxury to waste a critical resource. That being said, I welcome the distinction between scatological horror and slightly icky water.
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Andeerz

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Re: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2010, 04:24:46 pm »

Blackwater does have some uses.  Wouldn't a dwarf fort be considered an earthship of sorts?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_(waste)#Processing
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Impaler[WrG]

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Re: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2010, 04:35:36 pm »

I'd combine 'sink' and 'tub' in your example into one piece of furniture, in medieval times these would be one and the same, people bathed in a tub much smaller then we have now and would have used it for all their washing needs (apart from washing cloths directly in a river).  This new tub furniture piece would also replace the use of barrels in the Tanners shop.  Lastly it should be possible to carve a tub from native rock or build one on-site with masonry.
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Warlord255

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Re: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2010, 05:37:15 pm »

Now this is an idea I could get behind.  Greywater has all kinds of uses.  Blackwater does not.
It's not because we have taken up the habit to flush away excrement with drinking water that people in other places and time had that luxury to waste a critical resource. That being said, I welcome the distinction between scatological horror and slightly icky water.

I'm in agreement, here. I think one of the driving forces behind wanting scat stuff is to have a reason to engineer plumbing systems, which is admittedly a fun prospect rife with potential disaster and/or wonderous engineering. The only real requirement is a system that requires clean water and exports unclean water, which this fills nicely.
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Dakk

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Re: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2010, 05:43:47 pm »

I'd love if we could designate an area for "bathing" so we could create romanesque bath houses like the old emperors were dwarves could socialize and get good thoughts from cleaning themselves in a "legendary public bath".
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Impaler[WrG]

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Re: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2010, 07:23:19 pm »

A Roman style bath would be a very different from a tub based bath, if anything it would resemble the shallow swimming pools people now create for teaching dwarfs to swim, their would also need to be some kind of heating system which would be a complex engineering task probably requiring the long sought after inclusion of pipes.
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silhouette

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Re: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2010, 09:04:46 pm »

A Roman style bath would be a very different from a tub based bath, if anything it would resemble the shallow swimming pools people now create for teaching dwarfs to swim, their would also need to be some kind of heating system which would be a complex engineering task probably requiring the long sought after inclusion of pipes.

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Warlord255

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Re: Greywater: A revisit of the waste fpi
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2010, 10:21:24 pm »

A second interjection; might a "bathing" command/option in Adventure mode be worthwhile? Jump in a pond, get all clean before meeting with the King or what have you?

Once fluid bloods are in, I could see an adventurer taking pains to literally bathe in the blood of his enemies...
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