Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[JanusTwoface]

That's... a lot of text.

Can both of you please give a percent certainty that you think the other is scum?
And what about Eduren / Solifuge?

Also, Pandarsenic, you seem to have a strong dislike for whitespace.  Just for reference, when you do this, it's really hard to read...  On the same note, it feels sort of like you are over explaining things with that post, with details that aren't strictly relevant.  For me, that's something that I've noticed myself doing when I'm scum.  For you, I'm not sure.

On the other hand, you do raise a few good points about Leafsnail.  Leafsnail, you were gone for most of your Kingship (my fault) but when you got back, you surely didn't wait for long before hammering SirBayer.  And you generally aren't one of the more frequent posters, and thus harder to get a read on.

I still have an odd feeling about Solifuge, thus why I'd like to hear both of your opinions on it.  And for Solifuge to show up and dance (or just talk, that would work too).  This is another strategy that I've used as scum is just being suspicious absent / active lurk (but carefully) when it looks like I'm going to get my way.

And while we're at it, I don't think there's any problem with continuing as long as new discussion continues to flow.  Normally, I dislike epically long days, but we're *almost* at the make or break point now.

[Leafsnail]

Quotes 1, 2, 3: Trying to portray the pro-town strategy of trying to make a (theoretical) scum royalty bus a partner look like scum. You're not helping your case.

But it's no good if you randomly let up pressure.  What were your reasons for thinking Vector was town?  Besides, you already stated that scum would not bus on day one.

Quote 4: What are freelynches for, if not clearing up free lynches pre-emptively?

For lynching scum, and being able to get it wrong once or twice.  Basic stuff.  It makes no sense to push a freelynch on yourself if you have no role info.

And yes, I didn't notice until later - and once I noticed, a made a point of saying something might be amiss because I realized how much my opinion of him was influenced by his defense of me, which was Not Right.

Yep, you can't have too strong a town read on your buddy in case he gets lynched.

Quote 5: I thought I was responded to something else because you referred to something that never happened in your desperate flailing to paint me as scum.

You can't claim ignorance.  I've linked to all of your quotes.

Suspicions of Leafsnail: Yeah, you didn't feel like terrible obvscum to me like Bayer did, so I went with him instead. So did you, for that matter, despite how terribly convinced you claimed you were of my scuminess. Saving me for later, eh?

What about my main accusation, that you never actually pressured me even though I was apparently scum?

Bizarre sense of deja vu: Yeah, you'll notice strong parallels to the content of your Villain Quicktopic. Re NSBM: Yeah, you do funny things when every other player in the game is a confirmed townie, right? Unfortunately, that parallel doesn't work; I was scum in that game.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CompletelyMissingThePoint

Yep, you do do strange things when you're about to get lynched as scum.  Such as what you're currently doing right now.

THIS PLAN IS ELABORATE: No it isn't. It's a very, very basic mislynch setup.

Because yeah, trading one scum for one town would be a great deal for us, right?

Why I didn't complain about Bayer: Because I was tunneled on him. We were all tunneled on him. Because he was acting absurdly suspicious. We thought it was game over and he was the last scum at that point.

So why are you now accusing me for hammering someone you were sure was scum?

Yes, but see... a KM claim is good/decent today because it reduces chance of mislynch. But tonight, if we lynch anybody but you, JanusTwoFace is going to be shot. Unless! Unless you think JanusTwoFace is dumb enough to crown you, in which case you'll leave him alive. You win IF you're crowned at 3p OR if a townking mislynches at 3p.

You realise that if Janus claimed tomorrow rather than today he wouldn't be cleared at all, right?  This argument is simply pathetic.

Pandarsenic, you've been activelurking: Yes, because that's what aggressively driving Vector (to determine he was, in fact, town, at length) and Bayer (to conclude he was scum because he acted like scum) is. Activelurking. DON'T CONFUSE IT WITH SCUMHUNTING ANYONE, THAT WOULD BE SILLY AND ACCURATE AND LEAFSNAIL WANTS NONE OF THAT.

You accuse Vector and then drop off her for no real reason.

You accuse SirBayer, make sure he gets lynched and then... nothing.  Nothing until you see a chance to OMGUS.

If I were scum and I were kinged tomorrow: I would lynch anyone, stupid. I wouldn't need to justify at that point, because I'd have already won. Like you're trying to.

No, Pandarsenic.  You KNOW that the other two are townies.  Therefore you don't know which one will become KM if you kill Janus, and therefore you don't know which one might be kinged and cleared.  Thus you need to keep your options as open as possible for tomorrow, while making sure you get a mislynch today.

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=Deflect_Missiles

Sorry, being in Amsterdam with no internet connection makes it fairly difficult to post.

Can both of you please give a percent certainty that you think the other is scum?

95%.

And what about Eduren / Solifuge?

Hard to read someone who isn't here, so I'd lean Solifuge.  Maybe 1.5% on eduren (he seems more town than scum) and 3.5% on Solifuge by extension.

To be honest... I don't think it matters so much about Solifuge.  It only takes on vote to lynch, and the scum is Pandarsenic.

[Pandarsenic]

JanusTwoFace: 99%. I would be very, very surprised if Leafsnail was not scum at this point. That leaves half a percent each for Solifuge and Eduren. More like .9% and .1% scummitude of Solifuge and Eduren, really. Also, my mass-scans where I go through the whole thread and record all interactions have been very useful to me in the past, and they've not failed me this time.

Leafsnail: "Randomly letting up pressure." It's not random if you stop once you have a read. My reasons were (as they ever are) my wintuition. Feeling comes first, reason after. And stating scum wouldn't bus day one WAS PART OF THE BULLYING-INTO-A-BUS STRATEGY AND YOU KNOW IT.

"FL on self": Or for getting rid of people you don't want at Lylo, for reasons of suspicion or knowing they'll get you all killed (see IhAh, DrCoconut, etc. on IRC for details).

Toonabuddying: If he was my partner I wouldn't have let him get away with what he was doing, especially as his lynch was approaching.

Responding to the rest later, class I'm logged on in just got out.

[Pandarsenic]

Back in action.

Let's see where we left off...

Right.

"Can't claim ignorance, I posted context": This happened so much farther after I replied that it's not even relevant. You posted my quotes out of context, I replied to something I thought they were (which they were not), and you paint the mistake as somehow scummy instead of just incorrect or misled, probably because then you have to admit it's YOU who intentionally misled me there.

"Didn't pressure me even though I was apparently scum": I was busy going after Vector. I don't like splitting up my scumhunting efforts, I get my gut feelings jumbled and it doesn't work. Also, demanding to know why people aren't voting you or why you aren't being pressured is scummy. Just, y'know. Retrospective look at stuff I didn't catch the first time around.

Completely missing the point: NO U

"Trading one scum for one town": Well clearly you didn't mean to, but it was a good backup scenario. And hey, it paid off, didn't it? People are somehow not realizing you're scum for some reason.

"ACCUSING ME": I'm not and don't portray it that way you scumgina. I said the way you asked for approval when everyone was convinced was scummy; you were trying to make sure you wouldn't draw suspicion for the mislynch.

"If Janus claimed tomorrow": Yeah, I'm saying that seeing him claim today, while still a good move for town, also benefited scum. If you don't think Janus will crown you, you can shoot him and claim KM. Or be kinged by a retard and immediately hammer town. If you think he will crown you, you can leave him alive. But at this point, I've basically sealed his fate unless you're hammered.

"No real reason": Go fuck a goat, you keep saying this and you're not proving anything with it. You're trying the scum/politician tactics of saying something until people are disposed to believe it's true just by hearing it even if it has no grounding in reality.

"I accuse SirBayer, make sure he gets lynched, and..." THE DAY IS OVER WHEN THAT HAPPENS YOU IDIOT. The next day you make an attack on me so obviously, horrendously scummy that OMGUS is the townie thing to do. -.-

"No, Pandarsenic.  You KNOW that the other two are townies.  Therefore you don't know which one will become KM if you kill Janus, and therefore you don't know which one might be kinged and cleared.  Thus you need to keep your options as open as possible for tomorrow, while making sure you get a mislynch today."
So... I know Eduren and Solifuge, like me, are townies.... And... the rest of this doesn't follow at all. If I am kinged tomorrow, it means that Eduren would have to hammer Solifuge, you would have to shoot Janus, Eduren would have to draw KM, and I would have to be kinged. But that would leave me alive with you, the scum, whom I would promptly hammer for the win.

"DEFLECT MISSILES" Nice try but that doesn't work when I save it for the end, AFTER I've pointed out how your arguments are a combination of abortions and miscarriages of the idea of logic.

[Pandarsenic]

Honestly, if you read my posts, and ESPECIALLY if you read Leafsnail's posts, it's obvious he's scum. I don't understand why he isn't dead yet.

[Leafsnail]

"Can't claim ignorance, I posted context": This happened so much farther after I replied that it's not even relevant. You posted my quotes out of context, I replied to something I thought they were (which they were not), and you paint the mistake as somehow scummy instead of just incorrect or misled, probably because then you have to admit it's YOU who intentionally misled me there.

Again, ALL quotes were linked back to their source, if you had forgotten their context (or the lie you had formulated at the time).  Ignorance of what a quote refers to is therefore not an exucuse.

"Didn't pressure me even though I was apparently scum": I was busy going after Vector. I don't like splitting up my scumhunting efforts, I get my gut feelings jumbled and it doesn't work. Also, demanding to know why people aren't voting you or why you aren't being pressured is scummy. Just, y'know. Retrospective look at stuff I didn't catch the first time around.

Weak attack is weak.  And it's still a completely scum move to say someone's scum without doing anything about it.

"Trading one scum for one town": Well clearly you didn't mean to, but it was a good backup scenario.

Even though buddying in the first place would, y'know, get ToonyMan lynched?

And hey, it paid off, didn't it? People are somehow not realizing you're scum for some reason.

Sporadic flashes of defeatism are sporadic.  And I see no way in which the plan you suggested would help me look town.

"ACCUSING ME": I'm not and don't portray it that way you scumgina. I said the way you asked for approval when everyone was convinced was scummy; you were trying to make sure you wouldn't draw suspicion for the mislynch.

Again, you'd prefer it if I ended the day randomly and without warning?

"If Janus claimed tomorrow": Yeah, I'm saying that seeing him claim today, while still a good move for town, also benefited scum.

Lol.  Something can't benefit town AND scum, moron.  Besides, does that mean you were fully in favour of a KM claim even though it was pro-scum?

If you don't think Janus will crown you, you can shoot him and claim KM. Or be kinged by a retard and immediately hammer town. If you think he will crown you, you can leave him alive. But at this point, I've basically sealed his fate unless you're hammered.

I don't see how the situation is any different from having no claim at all.  If the KM doesn't claim, then the KM on the last day will still be unconfirmed, will still need to pick town as king and will still have to convince the king to hammer the other.  I shouldn't need to be explaining this to you.

"No real reason": Go fuck a goat, you keep saying this and you're not proving anything with it. You're trying the scum/politician tactics of saying something until people are disposed to believe it's true just by hearing it even if it has no grounding in reality.

Then why not provide an actual reason?

"I accuse SirBayer, make sure he gets lynched, and..." THE DAY IS OVER WHEN THAT HAPPENS YOU IDIOT. The next day you make an attack on me so obviously, horrendously scummy that OMGUS is the townie thing to do. -.-

Ah, so it's my attack and not my previous behaviour that's scummy?  Interesting how your argument has not focused on this in the slightest.  Just for future reference, you might want to keep a notepad of the bullshit you make up.  That might stop you from getting caught lying so much.

So... I know Eduren and Solifuge, like me, are townies.... And... the rest of this doesn't follow at all. If I am kinged tomorrow, it means that Eduren would have to hammer Solifuge, you would have to shoot Janus, Eduren would have to draw KM, and I would have to be kinged. But that would leave me alive with you, the scum, whom I would promptly hammer for the win.

The plan I described is pretty obviously based on a mislynch of me today and an NK of Janus (your plan, remember?).

"DEFLECT MISSILES" Nice try but that doesn't work when I save it for the end, AFTER I've pointed out how your arguments are a combination of abortions and miscarriages of the idea of logic.

Palpable irony is palpable.

Honestly, if you read my posts, and ESPECIALLY if you read Leafsnail's posts, it's obvious he's scum. I don't understand why he isn't dead yet.

Seriously.  If you actually are town, you need to be tested for a split personality disorder.

[Eduren]

Leafsnail and Pandar: In 5 words, why is the other one scum?

[Pandarsenic]

He intentionally misrepresents my actions.

[Leafsnail]

He is obviously ToonyMan's partner.

[Solifuge]

<Panda-Cam: Complete Game Recap>

Thank you for this post, Panda. Useful as insight in the events of the game, and into your head.

I am surprised and dissapointed that there's not been a Hero claim. I was really hoping for a scum-claim. At any rate:

Pandarsenic:
Long-winded, explainatory, and defensive. He raises solid points that speak of a healthy level of paranoia. He has attempted useful strategies on behalf of town, but made a big point of how helpful he was being. Panda's "connection" to Toony is tenuous at best (I highly doubt they'd have let that happen as a scum-team without the point being the WIFOM). It almost seemed like Toony was trying to incriminate him, as he was the one to initiate the statements of "trust"). Also seems to trust me too much "Soli Looks like Bad Town". I would not trust me right now, given that my activity resembles a block of Swiss Cheese. Nevertheless, seems the most willing to allow himself to die, which means but a little before he role-flips.

Leafsnail:
Started terse and aggressive, using rapid-fire arguments. Seemed to be reaching for reasons to suspect Panda, many of which were misrepresentative. Possibly angry/flaily. More recently calmed and had direct points, some based on solid Mafia theory. Refuted Panda's accusations directly, but has few in return (became defensive). Mostly claiming "Panda is Scum" without substance... this could be because he is personally convinced, and lacking sufficient empathy thinks others should naturally agree.

Eduren:
Waiting for everyone to have a say before a hammer. Fairly sensible, seems to be watching passively more than hunting. Motioned for a bit of activity, though not fishing for something in specific. A self-hammer would be recockulous, so further analysis can wait in the event of a tomorrow.


Between the two, my gut sides with Pandar, if just because he seems to be operating off of logic and deduction, with the assumption that he will die and the game will go on. He also acts on reasonable paranoia, with legitimate emotional responses. Leaf seems overly cool and direct, and is twisting/misrepresenting things, which makes him seem innately sneaky.

[Pandarsenic]

To be fair, "Bad Town" is because you've sort of, er, absent, Solifuge. You help nobody in this game by being absent. Speaking of which, thanks for finally popping in.

Leafsnail = emulating the Toony Tunnel and/or the adaptation of it I use when I'm digging for reactions?

But yeah, I'm going to have to use that "Why is he scum in five words" thing in the future. It's rather telling how Leafy says, of all things, nothing linked to my behavior but rather something linked to his partner's.

[Leafsnail]

Panda's "connection" to Toony is tenuous at best

...

It's by far the strongest connection I've ever seen between two players, considering the short amount of time available to them.  Janus and DirtyBirdy's connection in NM was weak by contrast.

(I highly doubt they'd have let that happen as a scum-team without the point being the WIFOM)

And we all know Pandar hates to WIFOM as scum?

But yeah, I'm going to have to use that "Why is he scum in five words" thing in the future.

I agree, it is quite telling that your five words don't even seem to represent a scumtell.  Indeed, you've said why you've thought my arguments to be flawed, but I don't see how that makes me scum.  I would also like you to point out your evidence of "misrepresentation", which I certainly have not done any of.

I also like how your "go ahead and lynch me" attitude has disappeared.  It did its purpose of making you seem more town, I guess.

[Pandarsenic]

He intentionally misrepresents my actions.

Scummy.

And I'd rather see you lynched than me, but either option is acceptable. However, your desperate attempts to buy yourself another day are laughably transparent. I admire your fighting spirit but it won't do you any good.

And the evidence of your misrepresentation? Just because you refuse to acknowledge the content of my posts doesn't mean it's there.

[Leafsnail]

You've told me why you think my arguments are incorrect, but you haven't showed anyone how you think I've been "misrepresenting" you.  Since this is apparently the most important piece of evidence against me, would you mind stating where you think I've misrepresented you and how?

[Pandarsenic]

Here

And here

And also here

Pretty much any time you say something I did. And the occasional times you say things I didn't do.