Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Tellemurius]

ok so i know there is many modders trying to add more metals to the game but my question is:
what alloys are possible to make with dorf technology?

[sunshaker]

Anything before about 1700 looks to be fair game. After 1700 a good understand of chemistry starts and you see an explosion of knowledge (chemicals, synthetic dyes, new metals, new methods of refining, why certain refining methods will work with something and not others).

[Stargrasper]

I think Toady said 1400 was his arbitrary cutoff date for technology in DF.  You can do your own homework to see what that actually means for us as far as metallurgy is concerned.

[slink]

There are some nice comments by Tarn Adams inside the metals raw.  From those you can get some idea what is possible in his estimation.  If he feels that the metal is not capable of being refined within his timeframe, then the alloys of that metal should also not be possible.

After a while you may decide to follow your own imagination.  There are mods out there with modern metallurgy, with synthetics, and with any number of imaginary metals and alloys.   

[Tellemurius]

well my hobbit mod needs some work done on metals. now im asking what available alloys was possible before the 1400's and see if Tolkien made a connection.

[Arrkhal]

There really aren't a whole lot of useful pre-1400 practical alloys that aren't in the game already, or that aren't variations on a theme (i.e., varying the tin content in bronze).

About the only historical and practical alloy I can think of is arsenical bronze, made from a combination of copper and arsenic.  Realgar and orpiment are arsenic ores.  Too bad poisons aren't implemented.

A lot of cultures' metalsmith gods, like Hephestus/Vulcan, are deformed, lame, and/or mad, since many early copper- and bronzesmiths would start suffering the effects of arsenic poisoning after many years.  Even if they weren't intentionally making arsenical bronze, many copper ores have arsenic in them already.

I guess you could also make certain rocks be ores of mercury, though it's not yet possible to do reactions which require a container like a vial, as mercury should.  Don't know what uses mercury amalgams would have in DF.  Lots of crazy people throughout history were dumb enough to drink it, just because shiny has to = good.

Hm, nickel is in the game.  You could add meteoric iron, which is a combination of iron and nickel.  IMO, it should make armor that's nearly as good as steel, but weapons that aren't that much better than regular iron.

[Flaede]

there's meteor iron, and the resulting stuffs from that. Didn't one of tolkien's swordities have that as a source material? I know it gets talked of a lot in various legends and whatnot.

Google sez : check out this book (or one like it) and you may have your answers.
 "Although there are 70 metallic chemical elements, only 8 (gold, copper, lead, iron, silver, tin, arsenic and mercury) were recognized and used in their metallic state before the eighteenth century CE."

That quote is apparently from a chapter on extractability vs profit, and how this has changed through the centuries. Archaeomineralogy looks interesting. Now I go to search Google with the keyword "Archaeomineralogy".

[slink]

Cinnabar is the ore of mercury that is present in DF, but mercury doesn't seem very useful in DF unless you plan on practicing dentistry.   

There are a few miscellaneous gold alloys that could be used for decorative items, but like the colors of bronze they are not much different except for proportions.

[G-Flex]

They could probably make some aluminum alloys, but diluting something as absurdly rare as aluminum just doesn't seem like a great idea.

The most obvious alloy that hasn't been implemented is white gold, similar to rose gold but with nickel instead of copper. I'm not sure if people actually USED it that long ago, but it's quite plausible for inclusion.

[Arrkhal]

That reminds me of something.  I believe metallic zinc was not isolated until the 18th century, but brass was known as early as 30 BC or before, and was used to make weapons and possibly armor.  So if you want historical accuracy, you should make it so that zinc cannot be extracted from the ores, but zinc ore + copper metal can be combined to make brass.

And hm, the use of metallic nickel dates back to 3,500 BC, and it was commonly mistaken for silver.  So actually, the manufacture of "meteoric" type iron from iron and nickel is quite plausible, even though I don't believe it was ever actually done in human history.  It'd also be fun to make iron meteors occur very rarely in all layers.

[0x517A5D]

Cinnabar is the ore of mercury that is present in DF, but mercury doesn't seem very useful in DF unless you plan on practicing dentistry.   :D

Mercury can be used to make mirrors, which might be useful for the lighting arc.

Mercury is useful in extracting gold dust from ore.

Mercury fulminate.  Easy to make, powerful, high explosive.  Very dangerous to handle, forms poisonous gases on detonation, leaves poisonous residue.  Very dwarfy.  I think the alchemist should be able to make it, as it only takes metallic mercury, nitric acid, and distilled alcohol.

[ein]

Mercury fulminate.  Easy to make, powerful, high explosive.  Very dangerous to handle, forms poisonous gases on detonation, leaves poisonous residue.  Very dwarfy.  I think the alchemist should be able to make it, as it only takes metallic mercury, nitric acid, and distilled alcohol.

You weren't kidding about the easy to make part.
The hardest item on that list to get is mercury and even that's easy.

Unfortunately for DF purposes:

Mercury(II) fulminate is prepared by dissolving mercury in nitric acid and adding ethanol to the solution. It was first prepared by Edward Charles Howard in 1800.

[ungulateman]

They're dwarves.

The process involves alcohol.

And explosions.

I think we can bend the rules a bit here.

[Arrkhal]

Actually, all the ingredients for mercury fulminate fall into DF's arbitrary time period, even if the end result doesn't.  Nitric acid was discovered by Middle Eastern alchemists in the 8th century.  It's made from saltpeter and water, both of which are already in the game.

[immolo]

Actually, all the ingredients for mercury fulminate fall into DF's arbitrary time period, even if the end result doesn't.  Nitric acid was discovered by Middle Eastern alchemists in the 8th century.  It's made from saltpeter and water, both of which are already in the game.

And anyone with half a brain with a time machine could go back to Alexander the Great's time and invent the steam engine then. After all Heron actually had created a sort of basic steam engine. There are many example of things where you could go back and invent something if you already had the knowledge even if you only used their technology.

Not to mention it doesn't fit the setting at all. The gun and black powder were invented long before 1400 but you don't see them in the game.