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[Jetsquirrel]

I Agree with Moontayle

[Martin]

Just remembered that I have a save at work that's only two seasons behind so I can revert back to that. My stance on a regen still remains though. I just think the zombie things adds a level of impossibility that goes beyond the purpose of this challenge. I mean, hell, that zombie elk bird I mentioned has all 10 of my axesquad's war dogs on it, yet won't die. That's beyond ridiculous.

No, I agree completely. It's obviously a bug, and a crippling one at that for this challenge if it's not fixed soon.

[barconis]

I haven't run into the utterly unkillable undead yet, but I have been running into an increasing number of crash problems with 31.01 (including towards the end of my last save, which might kick me back a season anyway). I'm still not quite halfway in, so a new start with fewer bugs would be fine. I'll keep working with this one until then, though. It lets me see things like goblin mace lords who can drown for two seasons straight and still pop out through a grate and kill or maim half a dozen dogs and dwarves before finally going down.

[kilakan]

well I had a DECAPITATED zombie that then bite a dog in half... so ya, maybe high savage, medium evil area instead, still hard, just not as bad.  If you do a regen, please don't start in a good area.. please, the underground is very boring there.

[Realmfighter]

I'm in favor of regening.

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

I think that a regen would be fine, mostly because a lot of us have had games proceed quite far then get pulled out from under us so we need to start over and yet we still know where everything is causing less explore and more repetition. after all why dig exploration style when you know exactly where the metals you want are?

[smjjames]

I would be fine with a regen, I'm trying to wait for some of the major bugs to get fixed before I get going with fort mode.

[Jimmy]

All for regen.

Undead are broken. We went into this competition under the assumption that if there were bugs, we'd work around them. However this one is a gamebreaker, so if there's no fix for it with 0.31.03 then let's restart. Not only will that please more people but a new site might level the playing field somewhat for the mac/windows/linux players.

I really want to say something about the embark profile but I'll hold my tongue... all right, I'll say it. Could you revise the starting profiles? Frankly I'd prefer a straight vanilla 'Play Now!' embark to the current one. It's not a big issue since I can change the labors around, but the starting equipment selection's awful imho. At the very least dump the crossbow.

[kilakan]

I agree with jimmy, crossbow, and bolts were a waste of points, magnetite, or the play now would be better.

[Jim Groovester]

It's fortunate that we have the advantage of hindsight to criticize Martin's embark profile, which he made going into a completely new and unknown and radically different version of DF.

But really! Just one pick! How am I supposed to get anything done the first year?

[Moontayle]

Well, to be fair it's not hard to set up a wood furnace, pop out two coal, set up a forge and crank out two copper picks. I didn't do that, mind you, but I'm sure some people did.

[kilakan]

huh, I found that the pathing via building bugs are gone in the newest version, have had no problem building walls, doors, workshops, ect.  though having unaccesible area from burrows still causes insane lag.  Can also cook intestines and lungs and other by-products of slaughter!!!

[Jimmy]

I did forge two picks actually. I'll admit I'm being critical of the embark profile since it doesn't suit my style of play but I think I raise a valid point on the crossbow at least. I realize that Martin created it based on 40d play, but could we rethink the profile on a few points?

This is meant to be a challenge for experienced players. A straight vanilla 'Play Now!' profile is designed to give you everything you need to get going. If that's not challenging enough, then why not simply embark with a single pick and leave it to the player to make the rest? That should be enough for a true DF Master.

Hell, I've played games where I started with 7 peasants with no equipment. Still created a defensible fort from that. It just makes for a boring first year.

[Jim Groovester]

This is meant to be a challenge for experienced players. A straight vanilla 'Play Now!' profile is designed to give you everything you need to get going. If that's not challenging enough, then why not simply embark with a single pick and leave it to the player to make the rest? That should be enough for a true DF Master.

We've had this argument before (not you and I of course, but DFMC players) about Play Now! versus custom embark profiles. For reasons I can't remember it always came down to custom embark profiles, most likely from moderator discretion.

While Play Now! does give you a good mix of things to start a fort with, it doesn't provide anything custom tailored to the map at hand. For example, using Play Now! prevents you from embarking with ore and coal to forge a few weapons and a few pieces of leather to stitch armor right off the bat, and it doesn't let you take a hundred pieces of wood for a desert or glacier map. (These were more important concerns in 40d, since I guess there's wood on every map in the new version.) There are other considerations that the Play Now! embark isn't perfectly suited to, as well. (Like training useful workers, though again, this seems to be less of a problem than it used to for how highly skilled migrants come.)

Custom embark profiles are more advantageous, but nobody is ever happy with them. Usually they're much more workable than anybody gives them credit for.

Though blah blah a true DF master can make do with whatever he's given blah blah blah and wouldn't whine about it blah blah blah blah blah.

In short, Martin's a good enough DF player that he probably won't include anything extraneous in the embark for future contests.

[Martin]

31.03 is out. Fixes pathing and a bunch of military bugs. Toady says it might address some of the undead problems. I'm going to give it a whirl and chase some zombies around.

   (*) stopped missing undead/melted/etc. tissues holding parts from being severed

New stuff
   (*) allowed undead in arena
   (*) allowed undead to be killed by accumulated impacts for the time being while they don't make sense

So, sounds somewhat temporary while Toady figures out how to decapitate something that only has a head and crap like that.

On the crossbow issue - I debated that. My reason for including it was that I didn't want to make the focus of the challenge a survival one and I had no clue what nasties might be waiting (x2 now that there are underground ones to bump into). If the crossbow had been more expensive, i would have skipped it, but I thought a minimal amount of defense/hunting equipment would give players that would like to go that way an option. Getting started in a new version, with a new combat system (that undead bug aside is rather more challenging than 40d, IMO) and lots of things for people to learn, I thought that it was a reasonable bonus. If we do gen a new site (which there seems to be a fair bit of support for) I may adjust the profile now that we've gotten a better sense of how things are going.

Or I might give you a wagon full of lye and tell y'all to suck it.