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[Milksquid]

I was thinking about how to make the game a little more functionally transparent. It struck me that the wiki is such an excellent resource for how to work the game and I reference it so much that it would be useful if the game itself referenced the wiki.  Surely an in game tutorial would have to be changed every time a new feature was added.  What if you click on tutorial on the main screen in dwarf fortress and it showed you a list of different tutorials from the wiki? Or if you pressed the look key over something then it would show the content of that items wiki entry.

It would tie the community into the game a little more.

For that matter, imagine if there was an in game forum.  Call it the Mountain Home Inn or something on the main menu.   You could tie it into the game somehow.  Get (in game) yearly hilights from the forum  and version updates delivered to your fortress as like a letter from the Mountain Home talking about the newest gossip and cutting edge in dwarven technology.

[G-Flex]

Linking the game to the wiki's content doesn't seem feasible. I'm trying to wrap my head around the technical details involved and it seems a bit tricky.

Of course, I don't know that linking the wiki to the game in an official manner is a very good idea. The wiki isn't always right, and is often actually quite outdated, so it might be a tad misleading to present it in an official fashion.

[Milksquid]

What if the wiki was editable from in game?

[lucusLoC]

that would fix the situation how?

also: version control, quite a few people play on older versions.

also also: risk of vandalism, and its appearance to new players.

[Derakon]

Just provide a link, in the game, to the wiki. Anything else would basically require putting a web browser into the game, which is insane. There's nothing preventing users from playing DF in windowed mode with a browser open so they can flip to it to look things up. If anything, that'd be easier to use than an in-game browser that you'd have to exit out of every time you wanted to resume playing.

[Capntastic]

The wiki is a third party owned and operated website that Toady has no control over.   Though harder to mess with now, early on in its existence it was edited to display goatses and such.  If it was ever to go down or change hands and location, or if there were other problems, people would complain here on the forums to Toady rather than going through appropriate channels.   

[Felblood]

Nevertheless there needs to be a way for new people to find the wiki, until the included help becomes more serviceable.

How about this: The first page of the helps directs people to the DF Forums, where newbies will then be directed to the currently most convenient source of basic information (presently the wiki, though some people seem to prefer those tutorials).

The forums are an official Bay12 site, and Toady does have control over what goes on here.

Something along the lines of:

This game is still in a beta state and the user documentation is largely incomplete. If you need help go to the Dwarf Fortress Gameplay Questions Forum at http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?board=7.0 where you question has likely already been asked and answered.

>Table of Contents

It beats the current system where only those with the presence of mind to do a Google search get help that's complete enough to help, and even then it still comes from the same uncontrolled, third party source.

[Capntastic]

Good thing the game already has the website's URL in it then.

How much hand holding do you think people really need?

[Darkond2100]

More than my 5 year old sister, perhaps? It's a complicated game, and you DO need the wiki to understand how to play within 3 days. If I can't get anywhere with a game in 3 days, I quit.

[Felblood]

Good thing the game already has the website's URL in it then.

How much hand holding do you think people really need?

It's not about how much, but how well we help people. Give them the tools to find the needed information easily, and we won't have to hold their hands through the entire process.

You're right, it is in the help. --under "Technical," the one place that every newbie is guaranteed to look for instructions on how to find information on basic game mechanics.

Yes it's also on the title page, right under "Programmed by Tarn Adams." Lot's of games have the company's URL on the main menu; very few of those websites are anywhere near as useful or vital to success as external assistance is to new DF players.

[vogonpoet]

I think one easily implemented massive improvement would be an obvious link to the wiki on laptop key bindings. Something like - if you are running DF on a laptop, go here first.

I can't be the only person who uses their laptop more often than a desktop, and when I first installed the game, it was not even possible to navigate the help menus because of the - = [ ] issues. That's pretty impenetrable even for a roguelike, not being able to see all the help menus.

People are often criticized here for suggesting prioritizing interface improvement over game features, but I do wonder if any potential DF fans never even got as far as being able to navigate through the menus due to installing the game on a laptop.

[Footkerchief]

Yes it's also on the title page, right under "Programmed by Tarn Adams." Lot's of games have the company's URL on the main menu; very few of those websites are anywhere near as useful or vital to success as external assistance is to new DF players.

The game basically forces new players to look at the wiki URL:

It shows up on the normal "Create New World Now!" screen too, at least if you don't have anything in your save folder.



Vanilla 40d.

[Felblood]

Well, I'll be a goblin's uncle. Every time you start a new world, the game tells you where to go for help. I must've just been re-embarking in a different part of the same world all that time.

I wonder how many newbies read that screen. It isn't until after you've created a world, that you find out how far in over your head you are, so there is still something to be said for putting this in the help, but I concede that steps have been taken already in this vein.

[Footkerchief]

Every time you start a new world, the game tells you where to go for help.

Like I said, only if you don't have anything in your save folder already.  There's no doubt that the wiki URL could be displayed more prominently, and in more places.

[Felblood]

Actually, I started a new world to see for myself and my 40d16 popped that page up, even with 5 worlds already on the roster.

That said, it might be better to display a more concise explanation of where to get help when a player embarks in a world that contains an abandoned/crumbled, conquered fortress.