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[Lord Shonus]

IIRC the BFC range is for 50% accuracy, not hit-at-all.

[Micro102]

Well the part description gives a max range value. Doesn't sound like 50% accuracy.

[EuchreJack]

Nice ships, but at those speeds, I think you'll probably upgrade before your first space battle.

I'd suggest upping the life support time on the fighters.  Again, at those speeds, it might be 2+ days from launch to attack, not counting the time spend returning to the mother ship.

[Ametsala]

First off, the BFC isn't good enough for the 20cm lasers.

Don't get your hopes up in thinking it will ever catch up. Lasers just outrange the BFCs. I think in the end tech lasers reach something like 4 million kms, while BFCs are stuck at 1 million. So just treat the lasers as getting more damage, not more range.

I looked into this a couple months ago. Unless this has changed very recently, max laser range is 45 m km (80 cm far gamma ray in adv. spinal mount, i.e. 120 cm focal size). Max BFC range is 1.4 m km.

Also, 30 cm focal size is the largest laser that can have 5 second recharge rate.

[Micro102]

Yeah that sounds closer to the shock I felt when I discovered the difference. I just didn't bother to redo the calculations 

Either way, it sort of reduces the lasers down to "another type of kinetic weapon". Makes me feel like I'm missing out on a LOT of firepower.

[Hanzoku]

You aren't, though. What the increased range of the higher end lasers do is reduce the attenuation of the beam at max range. Instead of plinking for one damage at the 5 lightsecond hard limit for beam weapons, increasing tech improves the focus and the damage output at longer ranges.

[Micro102]

You aren't, though. What the increased range of the higher end lasers do is reduce the attenuation of the beam at max range. Instead of plinking for one damage at the 5 lightsecond hard limit for beam weapons, increasing tech improves the focus and the damage output at longer ranges.

But it would do that regardless of the range limit. I would be plinking away at one damage for 10 million kms. And then 3 damage for another 10 mil. And so on and so forth until they then get in range for that high damage you were talking about.

[Akura]

Redesigned based on suggestions:

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Invincible class Battleship      40,935 tons       735 Crew       7,498.3 BP       TCS 819    TH 1,725    EM 1,650
6019 km/s      Armour 8-105       Shields 55-550       HTK 233      Sensors 16/16/0/0      DCR 22      PPV 88.84
Maint Life 1.11 Years     MSP 3,373    AFR 1117%    IFR 15.5%    1YR 2,753    5YR 41,291    Max Repair 616 MSP
Troop Capacity 1,000 tons     Boarding Capable    Magazine 544   
Captain    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   ENG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP704.00 (7)    Power 4928    Fuel Use 31.73%    Signature 246.40    Explosion 11%
Fuel Capacity 12,000,000 Litres    Range 166.3 billion km (319 days at full power)
Epsilon S55 / R550 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 550 seconds (0.1 per second)

20cm C5 Ultraviolet Laser (4)    Range 128,000km     TS: 6,019 km/s     Power 10-5     RM 40,000 km    ROF 10       
Twin 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (4x2)    Range 120,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R128-TS4000L (50%) (1)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 4,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22
Beam Fire Control R128-TS12000PD (50%) (1)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22
Stellarator Fusion Reactor R5 0.85 (4)     Total Power Output 20    Exp 5%
Tokamak Fusion Reactor R6 (4)     Total Power Output 24    Exp 5%

Size 4.0 Missile Launcher R4 (8)     Missile Size: 4    Rate of Fire 15
Missile Fire Control FC53-R30 (50%) (1)     Range 53.3m km    Resolution 30

Active Search Sensor AS158-R200 (50%) (1)     GPS 42000     Range 158.6m km    Resolution 200
Active Search Sensor AS15-R6 (50%) (1)     GPS 126     Range 15.6m km    Resolution 6
Thermal Sensor TH1.5-16.5 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 16.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  32.1m km
EM Sensor EM1.5-16.5 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 16.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  32.1m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Armor reduced by half, and designed 2000-ton engines which provide more EP-per-ton(0.352 vs 0.32), but also less fuel-per-EP-per-hour. Replaced PD lasers with turreted versions, and added updated BFC that can keep up with tracking speed and an AS that can more easily spot missiles. Size went way up, but nothing to be done about that.

The River was also given another engine and more fuel, and reduced armor. It travels about twice as fast and 1.5x longer. Unfortunately, I need to wait until my BFC tech improves so I can put a BFC small enough to work. Same with the Invincible's main gun BFC, as I need to improve its tracking speed. By the time that's done, maybe my shipyards can actually build it.

[EuchreJack]

One idea I had was to extrapolate the post-victory conditions of Shadow Empire into an Aurora start.  The player on that game towards its conclusion is approximately equivalent to the tech of an Aurora start.  Maybe create a hybrid conventional-standard start.  The real issue is population numbers: Planets on Shadow Empire only have populations around 2 million at game start.  You can't do anything in Aurora with such a small population but wait for them to multiply.  On a smaller world, the population on Aurora increases by 10% per year, essentially doubling every 10 years as long as the planet can support that population growth.

I'd probably estimate a start population of 10 million and SM in expansive infrastructure, maybe some ruins.  However, it is certainly possible that a post-victory Shadow Empire could reach out to the stars and find another planet in their system has been colonized.  If that planet hadn't reached unification, they would probably conquer it via mostly conventional means.  So maybe reflect all that with the more inhabitable planet having a population of 10 million and another planet with population of 5 million.

[Akura]

So, I waited a bit to get Internal Fusion drives and a few other techs before building the ships I posted previously. Still haven't built them yet, but here's what I've got.

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Invincible class Battleship      37,132 tons       671 Crew       7,894.5 BP       TCS 743    TH 1,109    EM 2,190
6221 km/s      Armour 8-99       Shields 73-584       HTK 240      Sensors 21/21/0/0      DCR 22      PPV 88.84
Maint Life 1.38 Years     MSP 3,594    AFR 919%    IFR 12.8%    1YR 2,046    5YR 30,690    Max Repair 660 MSP
Troop Capacity 1,000 tons     Boarding Capable    Magazine 544   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Internal Fusion Drive  EP660.00 (7)    Power 4620    Fuel Use 29.31%    Signature 158.40    Explosion 11%
Fuel Capacity 12,000,000 Litres    Range 198.5 billion km (369 days at full power)
Theta S73 / R584 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 584 seconds (0.1 per second)

20cm C5 Ultraviolet Laser (4)    Range 320,000km     TS: 6,250 km/s     Power 10-5     RM 40,000 km    ROF 10       
Twin 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (4x2)    Range 120,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R128-TS12000PD (50%) (1)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22
Beam Fire Control R320-TS6000L (50%) (1)     Max Range: 320,000 km   TS: 6,000 km/s     97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
Stellarator Fusion Reactor R5 0.85 (4)     Total Power Output 20    Exp 5%
Tokamak Fusion Reactor R6 (4)     Total Power Output 24    Exp 5%

Size 4.0 Missile Launcher R4 (8)     Missile Size: 4    Rate of Fire 15
Missile Fire Control FC53-R30 (50%) (1)     Range 53.3m km    Resolution 30
Minas Tirith MkIIIl Anti-Ship Missile (136)    Speed: 24,000 km/s    End: 55.7m     Range: 80.2m km    WH: 6    Size: 4    TH: 200/120/60

Theatre-Range Active Search Sensor AS160-R200 (50%) (1)     GPS 33600     Range 160m km    Resolution 200
Defense-Range Active Search Sensor AS20-R6 (50%) (1)     GPS 168     Range 20.3m km    Resolution 6
Thermal Sensor TH1.5-21.0 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 21     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  36.2m km
EM Sensor EM1.5-21.0 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 21     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  36.2m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Considerable reduction in mass but increases in both speed and fuel economy. Missile magazines have been improved for more HTK and lower explosion chance, and shields were up-tiered for more strength at same mass.

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Dreadnought class Cruiser      30,900 tons       525 Crew       6,225.1 BP       TCS 618    TH 950    EM 2,190
6407 km/s      Armour 5-87       Shields 73-584       HTK 163      Sensors 21/21/0/0      DCR 24      PPV 46.63
Maint Life 2.04 Years     MSP 3,762    AFR 546%    IFR 7.6%    1YR 1,204    5YR 18,057    Max Repair 660 MSP
Troop Capacity 500 tons     Boarding Capable    Magazine 272   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Internal Fusion Drive  EP660.00 (6)    Power 3960    Fuel Use 29.31%    Signature 158.40    Explosion 11%
Fuel Capacity 12,000,000 Litres    Range 238.5 billion km (430 days at full power)
Theta S73 / R584 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 584 seconds (0.1 per second)

20cm C5 Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 320,000km     TS: 6,407 km/s     Power 10-5     RM 40,000 km    ROF 10       
Twin 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (3x2)    Range 120,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R128-TS12000PD (50%) (1)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22
Beam Fire Control R320-TS6000L (50%) (1)     Max Range: 320,000 km   TS: 6,000 km/s     97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
Tokamak Fusion Reactor R6 (3)     Total Power Output 18    Exp 5%
Tokamak Fusion Reactor R5 (1)     Total Power Output 5    Exp 5%

Size 4.0 Missile Launcher R4 (4)     Missile Size: 4    Rate of Fire 15
Missile Fire Control FC53-R30 (50%) (1)     Range 53.3m km    Resolution 30
Minas Tirith MkIIIl Anti-Ship Missile (68)    Speed: 24,000 km/s    End: 55.7m     Range: 80.2m km    WH: 6    Size: 4    TH: 200/120/60

Defense-Range Active Search Sensor AS20-R6 (50%) (1)     GPS 168     Range 20.3m km    Resolution 6
Combat-Range Active Search Sensor AS89-R100 (50%) (1)     GPS 8400     Range 89.8m km    Resolution 100
EM Sensor EM1.5-21.0 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 21     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  36.2m km
Thermal Sensor TH1.5-21.0 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 21     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  36.2m km

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
Smaller, faster, can voyage longer, but less armor and firepower.

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Warrior class Destroyer Escort      16,376 tons       294 Crew       3,469.3 BP       TCS 328    TH 475    EM 300
6045 km/s      Armour 7-57       Shields 10-300       HTK 90      Sensors 21/21/0/0      DCR 18      PPV 41.05
Maint Life 1.41 Years     MSP 1,059    AFR 268%    IFR 3.7%    1YR 582    5YR 8,726    Max Repair 660 MSP
Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   ENG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Internal Fusion Drive  EP660.00 (3)    Power 1980    Fuel Use 29.31%    Signature 158.40    Explosion 11%
Fuel Capacity 6,000,000 Litres    Range 225 billion km (430 days at full power)
Theta S10 / R300 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 300 seconds (0 per second)

Twin 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (5x2)    Range 120,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R128-TS12000PD (50%) (1)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22
Tokamak Fusion Reactor R6 (5)     Total Power Output 30    Exp 5%

Defense-Range Active Search Sensor AS20-R6 (50%) (1)     GPS 168     Range 20.3m km    Resolution 6
Combat-Range Active Search Sensor AS89-R100 (50%) (1)     GPS 8400     Range 89.8m km    Resolution 100
EM Sensor EM1.5-21.0 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 21     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  36.2m km
Thermal Sensor TH1.5-21.0 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 21     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  36.2m km

ECCM-1 (1)         This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

A beam-based anti-missile/anti-fighter ship mostly.

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Broadsword MkII class Fast Attack Craft      973 tons       36 Crew       300.3 BP       TCS 19    TH 40    EM 0
8638 km/s      Armour 3-8       Shields 0-0       HTK 14      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 8
Maint Life 2.47 Years     MSP 99    AFR 76%    IFR 1.1%    1YR 22    5YR 336    Max Repair 84 MSP
Magazine 40   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 days    Morale Check Required   

Internal Fusion FAC Drive  EP84.00 (2)    Power 168    Fuel Use 571.60%    Signature 20.16    Explosion 21%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 3.2 billion km (4 days at full power)

Size 4.0 Missile Launcher R4 (2)     Missile Size: 4    Rate of Fire 15
Missile Fire Control FC53-R30 (50%) (1)     Range 53.3m km    Resolution 30
Minas Tirith MkIIIl Anti-Ship Missile (10)    Speed: 24,000 km/s    End: 55.7m     Range: 80.2m km    WH: 6    Size: 4    TH: 200/120/60

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

The MkI was garbage, it had a speed of 3000km/s. This FAC has a Type-II variant that replaces one of the missile launchers with a railgun and associated equipment; it's slightly slower but can still be built at the same shipyard as the dual-missile version.

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River class Interceptor      467 tons       24 Crew       198 BP       TCS 9    TH 24    EM 0
10712 km/s      Armour 2-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 5      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 3
Maint Life 5.83 Years     MSP 66    AFR 17%    IFR 0.2%    1YR 3    5YR 50    Max Repair 50 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1.5 days    Morale Check Required   

Internal Fusion Fighter Drive EP50.00 (2)    Power 100    Fuel Use 1250.0%    Signature 12.00    Explosion 25%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 3.1 billion km (3 days at full power)

R60/C3 Meson Cannon (1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 10,712 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 60,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R80-TS10000M (50%) (1)     Max Range: 80,000 km   TS: 10,000 km/s     88 75 62 50 38 25 12 0 0 0
Tokamak Fusion Reactor R3-PB40 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Exp 20%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

Stripped most of the armor, and took way too long in upgrading the BFC so that it could handle the new speed. I don't know how fast a fighter is supposed to go, but I figure this will serve as a close-range interceptor.

I also have an unfinished carrier design, but I'm finding that hangar space feels dreadfully small. The carrier in question is already at 37ktons, lacks any weapons(not even PD), or any kind of modules(maintenance, magazines, etc) that would support its fighter complement, and only has 8 hangar modules, which would be 16 max-sized fighters.

[EuchreJack]

Seems like the Warrior can only engage one missile or fighter at a time.  That seems...inefficient.

A beam-based anti-missile/anti-fighter ship should probably have crate paper for armor, as its role is to die so that better ships don't.  If the enemy loses half their missiles/fighters destroying your anti-missile/anti-fighter ship, then that is a win.  Internal systems are a form of hitpoints: Each laser/firecontrol/sensor is something that can get destroyed without blowing up the ship.

I wonder what would happen if you dropped your Battleship's armor to 6 to match the damage of your 10cm laser.  5 would match the penetration, but open up the surrounding armor slots to penetrating hits if later hit.  6 armor means that the exact armor area would have to get hit a second time to penetrate, the two surrounding armor slots would only be stripped but not penetrate if they were hit.

[Akura]

Seems like the Warrior can only engage one missile or fighter at a time.  That seems...inefficient.

More fire controls then? Technically, that'd be one fighter or missile salvo at a time, though your point still stands.

After adding a BFC(150t each) for each turret, I had to drop the armor to 3 to retain similar mass.

I wonder what would happen if you dropped your Battleship's armor to 6 to match the damage of your 10cm laser.  5 would match the penetration, but open up the surrounding armor slots to penetrating hits if later hit.  6 armor means that the exact armor area would have to get hit a second time to penetrate, the two surrounding armor slots would only be stripped but not penetrate if they were hit.

I was under the impression that a 6-damage laser didn't go 6 layers deep. As per the post on C# damage effects, a laser has a 3-point gradient, meaning that it would first(assuming no present damage) penetrate 3 layers deep, then hit once on the left and right, then put the last point on the fourth layer. With the Invincible's 8-layer thick armor, that means two direct hits to the same location - which I assume only has a 1.01% chance of happening - with a 6-damage laser will still only be armor damage, stripping that column and two point each off the adjacent columns but not hitting anything below it.

Setting the Invincible's armor to 6 did lower the mass by about 1000t, and gave it an extra 100km/s speed.

PRE-EDIT: Double-checked, 10cm lasers do 3 points of damage, but I'm guessing the above implies that a double turret simply does double damage instead of shooting twice?

[Rince Wind]

Double turrets shoot twice.

The weapon which does its damage in a straight line is a particle beam. Like lasers you can build a bigger version, a particle lance, but only after a couple researches down the line.

[Culise]

Seems like the Warrior can only engage one missile or fighter at a time.  That seems...inefficient.

More fire controls then? Technically, that'd be one fighter or missile salvo at a time, though your point still stands.

I'm not sure about missiles.  It was a 1.0 C# change that each fire control can now engage as many available (missile) targets in point-blank firing modes as it has linked weapons.  The point on fighters does stand.

[EuchreJack]

Seems like the Warrior can only engage one missile or fighter at a time.  That seems...inefficient.

More fire controls then? Technically, that'd be one fighter or missile salvo at a time, though your point still stands.

After adding a BFC(150t each) for each turret, I had to drop the armor to 3 to retain similar mass.

Sounds like a good design.  It seems to compare decently to your FACs.  It would take a lot of fighters to equal the cost, but it would take a lot of fighters to take out.