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[iceball3]

...or send in something specially designed to survive and lure the defenders away...

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Breacher class Jump Point Attack Base    44,950 tons     360 Crew     3898.5 BP      TCS 899  TH 700  EM 0
1557 km/s     Armour 20-112     Shields 0-0     Sensors 8/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 54    Max Repair 37.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 34 months    Spare Berths 1   

Daniels-Forster 200 EP Commercial Magneto-plasma Drive (7)    Power 200    Fuel Use 0.78%    Signature 100    Exp 2%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 77.0 billion km   (572 days at full power)

Lamb Kinetics CIWS-200-4 (30x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Lee Design Bureau Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 16     Range 1.3m km    MCR 139k km    Resolution 1
Mellor-Ingram Active Search Sensor MR5-R16 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 256     Range 5.1m km    Resolution 16
Bolton-Manning Active Search Sensor MR10-R65 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 1040     Range 10.3m km    Resolution 65
Wilkins-Spencer Thermal Sensor TH1-8 (70%) (2)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km
Wilkins-Spencer EM Detection Sensor EM1-8 (70%) (2)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposesIf they are just sitting on the JP, the "CIWS can defend even against point blank missile fire" gets valid really fast.

Also worth noting that CIWS is the only system that can defend against missile fire while experiencing jump blindness.
It's pretty vulnerable to meson and microwave fire, just to warn, though it looks like it's got enough tonnage to handle a beating, to cover it's allies.

[Detros]

...or send in something specially designed to survive and lure the defenders away...

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Breacher class Jump Point Attack Base    44,950 tons     360 Crew     3898.5 BP      TCS 899  TH 700  EM 0
1557 km/s     Armour 20-112     Shields 0-0     Sensors 8/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 54    Max Repair 37.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 34 months    Spare Berths 1   

Daniels-Forster 200 EP Commercial Magneto-plasma Drive (7)    Power 200    Fuel Use 0.78%    Signature 100    Exp 2%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 77.0 billion km   (572 days at full power)

Lamb Kinetics CIWS-200-4 (30x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Lee Design Bureau Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 16     Range 1.3m km    MCR 139k km    Resolution 1
Mellor-Ingram Active Search Sensor MR5-R16 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 256     Range 5.1m km    Resolution 16
Bolton-Manning Active Search Sensor MR10-R65 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 1040     Range 10.3m km    Resolution 65
Wilkins-Spencer Thermal Sensor TH1-8 (70%) (2)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km
Wilkins-Spencer EM Detection Sensor EM1-8 (70%) (2)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposesIf they are just sitting on the JP, the "CIWS can defend even against point blank missile fire" gets valid really fast.

Also worth noting that CIWS is the only system that can defend against missile fire while experiencing jump blindness.
It's pretty vulnerable to meson and microwave fire, just to warn, though it looks like it's got enough tonnage to handle a beating, to cover it's allies.

It has 275 HTK and mesons do just 1 damage per tick. And NPRs currently don't use mesons.
So a pair of Breachers soaked missiles with its PD for few minutes and when enemy launchers were empty my laser destroyer fleet joined the party.

[Flying Dice]

...or send in something specially designed to survive and lure the defenders away...

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Breacher class Jump Point Attack Base    44,950 tons     360 Crew     3898.5 BP      TCS 899  TH 700  EM 0
1557 km/s     Armour 20-112     Shields 0-0     Sensors 8/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 54    Max Repair 37.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 34 months    Spare Berths 1   

Daniels-Forster 200 EP Commercial Magneto-plasma Drive (7)    Power 200    Fuel Use 0.78%    Signature 100    Exp 2%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 77.0 billion km   (572 days at full power)

Lamb Kinetics CIWS-200-4 (30x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Lee Design Bureau Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 16     Range 1.3m km    MCR 139k km    Resolution 1
Mellor-Ingram Active Search Sensor MR5-R16 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 256     Range 5.1m km    Resolution 16
Bolton-Manning Active Search Sensor MR10-R65 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 1040     Range 10.3m km    Resolution 65
Wilkins-Spencer Thermal Sensor TH1-8 (70%) (2)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km
Wilkins-Spencer EM Detection Sensor EM1-8 (70%) (2)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposesIf they are just sitting on the JP, the "CIWS can defend even against point blank missile fire" gets valid really fast.

As above, it doesn't matter if they're sitting on the JP. When you jump through, you have random scatter which will already be in the multi-hundred thousand km range at that general TL. The only way you're ever going to end up directly on top of an enemy force is if they're immobile and you (for some reason) elect to close to that range instead of standing off and firing at them. That's what the Max Squadron Jump Radius tech does, it expands the radius of the circle of space into which your TG can potentially emerge when you exit a JP.

It's also functionally impossible to move to 0 range against a mobile force, assuming they're moving as well, so far as I know. The change to movement a while back (shifting to interception vectoring instead of tail-chasing) might have changed that, but the ranges at which combat commences are so great that it's effectively moot. No missile ship has any business trying to get that close, even fighters.

[Detros]

...or send in something specially designed to survive and lure the defenders away...

Like this?

Code: [Select]

Breacher class Jump Point Attack Base    44,950 tons     360 Crew     3898.5 BP      TCS 899  TH 700  EM 0
1557 km/s     Armour 20-112     Shields 0-0     Sensors 8/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 54    Max Repair 37.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 34 months    Spare Berths 1   

Daniels-Forster 200 EP Commercial Magneto-plasma Drive (7)    Power 200    Fuel Use 0.78%    Signature 100    Exp 2%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 77.0 billion km   (572 days at full power)

Lamb Kinetics CIWS-200-4 (30x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Lee Design Bureau Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 16     Range 1.3m km    MCR 139k km    Resolution 1
Mellor-Ingram Active Search Sensor MR5-R16 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 256     Range 5.1m km    Resolution 16
Bolton-Manning Active Search Sensor MR10-R65 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 1040     Range 10.3m km    Resolution 65
Wilkins-Spencer Thermal Sensor TH1-8 (70%) (2)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km
Wilkins-Spencer EM Detection Sensor EM1-8 (70%) (2)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposesIf they are just sitting on the JP, the "CIWS can defend even against point blank missile fire" gets valid really fast.

As above, it doesn't matter if they're sitting on the JP. When you jump through, you have random scatter which will already be in the multi-hundred thousand km range at that general TL. The only way you're ever going to end up directly on top of an enemy force is if they're immobile and you (for some reason) elect to close to that range instead of standing off and firing at them. That's what the Max Squadron Jump Radius tech does, it expands the radius of the circle of space into which your TG can potentially emerge when you exit a JP.

It's also functionally impossible to move to 0 range against a mobile force, assuming they're moving as well, so far as I know. The change to movement a while back (shifting to interception vectoring instead of tail-chasing) might have changed that, but the ranges at which combat commences are so great that it's effectively moot. No missile ship has any business trying to get that close, even fighters.

No. Random scatter is only for Squadron Jump and there the jump engines need to move with the force. Note these ships have no jump engine and, because you can't then immediately jump back out, I am not jumping them as a squadron together with some tender via Squadron Jump. Instead, because for commercial engines I had a design only for very slow and not too armoured jump tender, too, I used Standard Jump. This puts you directly at distance 0 from JP but the tender can stay on either side and you are not limited by the amount of jumped ships.

When I have send several scouts via this guarded JP before, yes, they had jump engines so used Squadron Jump but that NPR was using too fast missiles for my scouts to manage to fly away fast enough. I guess with enough force I could have tried squadron-jumping in my laser ships directly but even with training you get blind for few ticks so the losses would be probably higher than using Breachers (= 0 losses). IIRC I didn't have high enough jump engine tech to send in all my dozen laser combatants via Squadron Jump, nevertheless.

No missile ship has any business trying to get that close, even fighters.

NPR had missile ships, I had only laser ones.

[Hanzoku]

I'd love to see the expression on the civilian crew's faces when they're told their ship's role in the coming battle.

"Sir... we're to jump through alone, and just sit there, being swarmed with every missile the enemy can throw at us?"

"That's roughly correct."

"I didn't sign up for this! I'm in the merchant marine!"

"Needs of the service lad. And we've got your navigation and jump engine slaved to a remote trigger."

[Detros]

"I didn't sign up for this! I'm in the merchant marine!"

"Yes, sure. What did you think that "Jump Point Attack Base" designation of Breacher class was about? Or its name?"
~ "Ehmm... about... breaching a... ehm... trading embargo?" *not-really-convinced nervous smile*

[Alastar]

I'd love to see the expression on the civilian crew's faces when they're told their ship's role in the coming battle.

"Sir... we're to jump through alone, and just sit there, being swarmed with every missile the enemy can throw at us?"

"That's roughly correct."

"I didn't sign up for this! I'm in the merchant marine!"

"Needs of the service lad. And we've got your navigation and jump engine slaved to a remote trigger."

Well, in WW2 you were more likely to die in the British merchant marine than in the Royal Navy. Unrestricted commerce raiding is harsh.

[Hanzoku]

That's true, but there's a lot of difference between doing your normal thing as a merchant ship, and being assigned to a ship whose sole purpose is to jump into enemy defenses and take a pounding.

[Flying Dice]

...or send in something specially designed to survive and lure the defenders away...

Like this?

Code: [Select]

Breacher class Jump Point Attack Base    44,950 tons     360 Crew     3898.5 BP      TCS 899  TH 700  EM 0
1557 km/s     Armour 20-112     Shields 0-0     Sensors 8/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 54    Max Repair 37.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 34 months    Spare Berths 1   

Daniels-Forster 200 EP Commercial Magneto-plasma Drive (7)    Power 200    Fuel Use 0.78%    Signature 100    Exp 2%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 77.0 billion km   (572 days at full power)

Lamb Kinetics CIWS-200-4 (30x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Lee Design Bureau Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 16     Range 1.3m km    MCR 139k km    Resolution 1
Mellor-Ingram Active Search Sensor MR5-R16 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 256     Range 5.1m km    Resolution 16
Bolton-Manning Active Search Sensor MR10-R65 AAS16 (70%) (2)     GPS 1040     Range 10.3m km    Resolution 65
Wilkins-Spencer Thermal Sensor TH1-8 (70%) (2)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km
Wilkins-Spencer EM Detection Sensor EM1-8 (70%) (2)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposesIf they are just sitting on the JP, the "CIWS can defend even against point blank missile fire" gets valid really fast.

As above, it doesn't matter if they're sitting on the JP. When you jump through, you have random scatter which will already be in the multi-hundred thousand km range at that general TL. The only way you're ever going to end up directly on top of an enemy force is if they're immobile and you (for some reason) elect to close to that range instead of standing off and firing at them. That's what the Max Squadron Jump Radius tech does, it expands the radius of the circle of space into which your TG can potentially emerge when you exit a JP.

It's also functionally impossible to move to 0 range against a mobile force, assuming they're moving as well, so far as I know. The change to movement a while back (shifting to interception vectoring instead of tail-chasing) might have changed that, but the ranges at which combat commences are so great that it's effectively moot. No missile ship has any business trying to get that close, even fighters.

No. Random scatter is only for Squadron Jump and there the jump engines need to move with the force. Note these ships have no jump engine and, because you can't then immediately jump back out, I am not jumping them as a squadron together with some tender via Squadron Jump. Instead, because for commercial engines I had a design only for very slow and not too armoured jump tender, too, I used Standard Jump. This puts you directly at distance 0 from JP but the tender can stay on either side and you are not limited by the amount of jumped ships.

When I have send several scouts via this guarded JP before, yes, they had jump engines so used Squadron Jump but that NPR was using too fast missiles for my scouts to manage to fly away fast enough. I guess with enough force I could have tried squadron-jumping in my laser ships directly but even with training you get blind for few ticks so the losses would be probably higher than using Breachers (= 0 losses). IIRC I didn't have high enough jump engine tech to send in all my dozen laser combatants via Squadron Jump, nevertheless.

No missile ship has any business trying to get that close, even fighters.

NPR had missile ships, I had only laser ones.

My question then would be why you're trying to force an occupied JP when you don't have good enough tech to squadron jump your whole force, you don't have any missile ships of your own, and the ships you're sending aren't fast or tough enough to break away. I mentioned scatter as an absolute because it is, so far as potential success vs. an equal or superior defender is concerned. Attacking through a JG is for when you already have overwhelming military superiority or local control.

If you can't take it, you can't take it. There's nothing wrong with bottling up a system for a decade or two until you've built up enough to tackle it properly. Or, for that matter, waiting a couple years for the hostile ships to move off the JP. When they're camping it like that it's because of a specific reason in my experience: they followed your ships back to it, don't have drives to transit it, and haven't lost aggression/contact activation/whatever you prefer to call it. Which, incidentally, is one of the reasons I scout with disposable survey ships and cloaked passive sensor boats.

Good job on not gating the out-system side of the JP though, this is exactly why that's a bad idea. Those ships getting loose into your own territory would be much worse than them sitting on the far side of a JP.

You could also try building decoys and sending those through to drain their magazines until they're either useless or moving back to rearm at a depot.

[Sheb]

You could also try building decoys and sending those through to drain their magazines until they're either useless or moving back to rearm at a depot.

That's exactly what his Breacher-class are no?

[Madman198237]

I am trying this game.


GAAAAAH THE MENUS!!!
Options everywhere! And yet, the option you need is NOWHERE TO BE FOUND!

[Detros]

Good job on not gating the out-system side of the JP though, this is exactly why that's a bad idea. Those ships getting loose into your own territory would be much worse than them sitting on the far side of a JP.

Yes, especially considering the in-system (my side) of that JP was Sol.

You could also try building decoys and sending those through to drain their magazines until they're either useless or moving back to rearm at a depot.

That's exactly what his Breacher-class are no?

Yes. That's exactly why I put 30x CIWS on them. And it worked great.

I am trying this game.


GAAAAAH THE MENUS!!!
Options everywhere! And yet, the option you need is NOWHERE TO BE FOUND!

Yeah, it's great. When you calm down a bit, tell us what you are looking for and we may help.

[Madman198237]

Nah. I just spent like 30 minutes looking for "Fast OOB" following a tutorial. Then found an older tutorial directing you to the SpaceMaster menu on the base page.

That was fun.


Yeah, I was just making an exaggerated comment on how obnoxious it is.

[Flying Dice]

You could also try building decoys and sending those through to drain their magazines until they're either useless or moving back to rearm at a depot.

That's exactly what his Breacher-class are no?

Yes. That's exactly why I put 30x CIWS on them. And it worked great.

Nah, I mean true decoys, not blobs of anti-missile weapons.

Like, make fighters or FACs that are basically nothing but armor and drop them through the JP. They'll soak ammunition way more efficiently because the AI doesn't have the brains to not fire full salvos at targets like that, never mind holding fire. At the TL you look to be at (and still mostly operating in Sol), nearly 4k BP represents a substantial investment of time and resources. That's mineral stockpiles and yard time that could be building up your infrastructure and fleet instead. The big blobs of armor and PD are more for when you have a foothold in a system but need to break through something like a Precursor missile station so that you can kill it and mop up whatever is left.

That's why I'm suggesting either draining them with dirt-cheap trash decoys or just ignoring the JP until you can handle it. Same general principle as leaving systems infested by Swarm/Invaders/a hostile NPR until you can break them, except more self-enforcing. My current campaign right now, I've got one chain in a nebula full of Swarm that I'm ignoring for the foreseeable future because fuck that, a system adjacent to Sol and at least one chain occupied by Invaders, two chains with NPRs colonizing in them, and a whole mess of Precursor bits and bobs. I got about 3 jumps out from Sol on every chain I had free rein in but didn't have many good basing options, so I pulled back, built up orbital defenses, threw together a few crappy task groups to start clearing Precursors, and then buckled down and bootstrapped my tech, mining network, supply chain, and shipyards to the point where I could crank out 70k ton battleships like popcorn to smash the Invaders and NPRs.

teal deer: You're in for the long haul, and resources are limited. It's perfectly okay to ignore threats that can't touch you and focus on getting the non-military side of things booming first.

[Sirus]

How well does the portable version work? No excessive slowness or anything?

I thought I had Aurora installed on this computer but the .exe somehow vanished.