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Author Topic: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games  (Read 2811495 times)

AlStar

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17505 on: January 29, 2016, 11:45:50 am »

Here is my next gen missile design give me your feed back
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

now before I lock in these missles I just noticed that since I researched these engines that I have researched .3 liters fuel consumption tech and these were done at .5 liters so their end range should be a little longer or I might re-balance some fuel and agility to improve their speed/to hit.

What's the range on your missile fire control and active sensors? Being able to fire missiles at a billion kms is all well and good, but doesn't help much if you can only target ships at a hundred million. Offhand, I'd say you can probably drop range for a bigger warhead or more speed.

iceball3

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17506 on: January 29, 2016, 12:03:53 pm »

Here is my next gen missile design give me your feed back
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

now before I lock in these missles I just noticed that since I researched these engines that I have researched .3 liters fuel consumption tech and these were done at .5 liters so their end range should be a little longer or I might re-balance some fuel and agility to improve their speed/to hit.

What's the range on your missile fire control and active sensors? Being able to fire missiles at a billion kms is all well and good, but doesn't help much if you can only target ships at a hundred million. Offhand, I'd say you can probably drop range for a bigger warhead or more speed.
Still looks to be a pretty good missile, but more specifically it's rather situation. I suggest running a different set of ASM for closer range combat, to optimize accuracy and power, and use that original design for killing things across the system.
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Dramegno

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17507 on: January 29, 2016, 02:16:56 pm »

Is that a copy-paste error or do the ASMs really have a 1 billion kilometer range? Because that's excessive even for high-tech missiles unless you're doing shenanigans with relayed spotting intel and stealth. You'd be much better served trimming that down to ~400m km and making them fast/agile enough to actually hit things--you're still going to miss >75% of your shots against a large chunk of potential targets on your own, never mind what PD fire will do.
I like the sound of Shenanigans, I will look into doing that for some black ops ships. After I finish researching the next level of anti-grav sensors I will finalize my FCS as to answer
Here is my next gen missile design give me your feed back
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

now before I lock in these missles I just noticed that since I researched these engines that I have researched .3 liters fuel consumption tech and these were done at .5 liters so their end range should be a little longer or I might re-balance some fuel and agility to improve their speed/to hit.

What's the range on your missile fire control and active sensors? Being able to fire missiles at a billion kms is all well and good, but doesn't help much if you can only target ships at a hundred million. Offhand, I'd say you can probably drop range for a bigger warhead or more speed.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I do have the tech if I wanted to but I will lower the range and increase speed and/or warhead. I also take it that my AMM will do the job, since no one has said other wise.

Now I have no idea what a good mag size is or number of mags for the type of ships that I want to make are...
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So, it's AnimaRytak, mighty Void God, versus the greatest cluster[FOWL] my incompetence can engineer.

I will be so god damn proud if AMBASSADOR bites your head off.

AlStar

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17508 on: January 29, 2016, 02:25:31 pm »

Well, the war has finally ended - the Human empire has conquered the Kingdom of Mountain. Among our spoils were 65,000 wealth; a planet with 600 million population;  659,000 stockpiled minerals; hundreds of assorted factories, refineries, and mines; 151 million fuel; a 25,500k navel shipyard with 6(!) slipways, and a dozen ships of various designs, all powered by nuclear thermal engines.

My only regret is that now we're all alone without anyone to fight - we've somehow managed to not find any other NPRs in the galaxy beyond a couple of Precursor outposts.

Maybe I'll turn on the Invaders, just to spice things up.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 03:16:13 pm by AlStar »
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Raddish

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17509 on: January 29, 2016, 03:19:58 pm »

Because Mars has just about no mineral content and Venus has tons of minerals. I could just build automated mines, but where's the fun in that?
I mean, I slightly regret it now that the current 5m population of Venus is still all working in staying alive and not terraforming, but I WILL COLONIZE VENUS, DAMNIT.

If I recall how colony cost works with regards to the employment spread, Venus actually starts off requiring 105% of its population to work in agriculture.  So you are not going to get any mining done without bringing that cost down.
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Drakale

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17510 on: January 29, 2016, 03:27:44 pm »

Taming the deadly venusian tomatoes takes work ya know.

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Dramegno

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17511 on: January 29, 2016, 07:02:25 pm »

new and improved missiles
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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So, it's AnimaRytak, mighty Void God, versus the greatest cluster[FOWL] my incompetence can engineer.

I will be so god damn proud if AMBASSADOR bites your head off.

jocan2003

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17512 on: January 29, 2016, 07:38:16 pm »

What engine tech are you on? Your ASM seem to be a bit tight in the 5-10kms range but on the other hand you do have very nice warhead on your missile so i guess its good, myself im more about speed and hit chance than pure brute force, my missiles are still 9 damage on size 6 launcher, what didnthelp is the damn invader treat wich made me focus on speed and agility more than damage and even then their PDS would simply obliterate my missile anyway.....

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

These are my missiles, with the invader on my door i wanted a last ditch missiles wich could intercept them as they flew for finishing move after i tanked their missiles. Close range high speed low damage but sure to hit missiles, could also be used against FAC and fast aircraft, they are my dual purpose missiles. I dont have proper long range missiles yet wich is something i will end up working on very soon. Also they do have a smallish sensor on them should i overkill enemies the other will simply retarget along the way.

I am on magnetic confinement fusion drive or MCF engine level.

AMM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
With these stats on my AMM i dont think i will ever have to remake them.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17513 on: January 29, 2016, 08:05:57 pm »

Yeah. I discovered the 105% population thing yesterday and have since then built a few terraformers and invested more in researching colony cost reduction tech to get the costs down. Venus will be mine!

So I have another question: Engines and their application. I see all these people talk about ships with 10k km/s speed and I have no idea how that's done without raising the AFR to extreme levels. (Which I've found to be the main limit to my ships. If I make them too big BAM AFR goes to 10,000% and no amount of engineering spaces will bring it down to a reasonable level). Right now I have Internal Fusion engine tech and my faster ships only hit the 3k-4k km/s speed range. Am I doing something wrong or is this normal?

That's my number one dislike when games like Aurora present you with an extreme amount of options. With so many important variables you have to change and no easy reference points for any of those variables it starts getting really difficult to choose the right options.

EDIT: Speaking of AFR, is there any way to keep it down other than keeping your military ships small and hoping that you can add enough engineering spaces? And even then, what's a good AFR level to shoot for? Right now on my WIP Jump Explorer design I see an AFR of 58% but am packing plenty of MSP. (28k capacity vs 2.7k highest repair cost, currently)
Also, what stat should I even look at for maintenance? Is maint life a better indicator of AFR?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 08:09:01 pm by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17514 on: January 29, 2016, 08:29:43 pm »

Ever since the drive system rework speeds have been lower across the board--you used to be able to hit 10km/s+ at Magneto-Plasma drives fairly easily. The single biggest reason behind >slow< ships, especially at higher TLs, is people designing them with a low percentage of the volume dedicated to drives. Don't measure by "n number of drives" but by "% of total tonnage dedicated to drives".

Too-high AFR/IFR means you're not using enough engineering spaces.

Here's an example, a missile cruiser that I'm going to put into production soon:
Code: [Select]
Solemn Oath class Missile Cruiser    57,600 tons     1241 Crew     27142.55 BP      TCS 1152  TH 1382.4  EM 6000
10000 km/s     Armour 20-132     Shields 200-300     Sensors 24/24/0/0     Damage Control Rating 137     PPV 60
Maint Life 8.46 Years     MSP 31510    AFR 248%    IFR 3.4%    1YR 785    5YR 11773    Max Repair 1200 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 120 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 1408    Cryogenic Berths 200   

Adonai Drive Systems 960 EP Inertial Fusion Drive (12)    Power 960    Fuel Use 55.11%    Signature 115.2    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 15,000,000 Litres    Range 85.1 billion km   (98 days at full power)
Taurus Defence Industries Xi R300/360 Shields (40)   Total Fuel Cost  600 Litres per hour  (14,400 per day)

Barak Technology 52cm C6 Far X-Ray Laser (1)    Range 480,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 71-6     RM 8    ROF 60        71 71 71 71 71 71 71 71 63 56
Endanor-Salvin Systems CIWS-320 (6x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 32000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Valefar Incorporated Fire Control S06 240-24000 (1)    Max Range: 480,000 km   TS: 24000 km/s     98 96 94 92 90 88 85 83 81 79
Kalick-Endymion Magnetic Confinement Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 10    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Bale Armaments Company Size 4 Missile Launcher (50% Reduction) (22)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 70
Eisenstein Technology Missile Fire Control FC460-R16 (2)     Range 460.8m km    Resolution 16
Javelin-4 III (352)  Speed: 40,000 km/s   End: 123.7m    Range: 296.8m km   WH: 16    Size: 4    TH: 386/232/116

Eisenstein Technology Active Search Sensor MR768-R16 (1)     GPS 12800     Range 768.0m km    Resolution 16
Sotha-Hezekiah Thermal Sensor TH1-24 (1)     Sensitivity 24     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  24m km
Sotha-Hezekiah EM Detection Sensor EM1-24 (1)     Sensitivity 24     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  24m km

ECCM-3 (2)         ECM 30

Those drives are Inertial Fusion and occupy 1,000 tons of displacement each. There's twelve of them, 12,000t of drive on a 57,600t ship. In other words, at pretty high tech all around, I needed to make the ship roughly 20% engines to hit 10k km/s, and that when using 150% power drives. I also needed 5,350t of engineering spaces (plus the Adv. Damage Control) to make the maintenance costs reasonable. Plus 15,000t of fuel storage to give it a half-decent range. In other words, fully 56% of that ship is dedicated solely to drives, fuel, and maintenance supplies. If you include crew quarters and magazine space, I'd guesstimate maybe 30% of it as being combat-related (sensors, launchers, laser, fire controls, ECM, shields, &c.).

E: Don't worry about AFR. Worry about the highest repair cost vs. your total supplies, and about the estimated maintenance lifespan. All that matters is 1) being able to repair your most expensive component if it breaks and 2) the average length of time you can deploy before you run out of supplies.

Regarding ASMs, here's a breakdown of my current model:
Code: (Javelin-4 III) [Select]
Missile Size: 4 MSP  (0.2 HS)     Warhead: 16    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 29
Speed: 40000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 124 minutes   Range: 296.8m km
Thermal Sensor Strength: 0.06    Detect Sig Strength 1000:  60,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 7.632
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1160%   3k km/s 377%   5k km/s 232%   10k km/s 116%

That's a fairly generalist design meant to fill most roles in combat.
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Aurora on small monitors:
1. Game Parameters -> Reduced Height Windows.
2. Lock taskbar to the right side of your desktop.
3. Run Resize Enable

coleslaw35

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17515 on: January 29, 2016, 08:34:39 pm »

Discovered a new, interesting system.



kappa?
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Culise

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17516 on: January 29, 2016, 08:41:20 pm »

Err, Kappa is the tenth letter in the Greek alphabet, yes, and thus used to name stars by their brightness in a constellation such as Kappa Ceti.  If there's a joke, I'm afraid I for one completely missed it.
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coleslaw35

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17517 on: January 29, 2016, 08:42:19 pm »

Err, the tenth letter in the Greek alphabet, yes.  If there's a joke, I'm afraid I for one completely missed it.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/kappa
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Culise

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17518 on: January 29, 2016, 08:44:02 pm »

Err, the tenth letter in the Greek alphabet, yes.  If there's a joke, I'm afraid I for one completely missed it.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/kappa
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Akura

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17519 on: January 29, 2016, 08:45:44 pm »

Opened this up again now that I have a monitor that can display it.


Just... ouch. I am not intelligent enough to figure this out.
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