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Author Topic: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games  (Read 2849107 times)

Rince Wind

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17430 on: January 27, 2016, 08:04:46 pm »

Colliers are mostly intended to be non-combat vessels, resupplying the fleet after combat.

 I dont think they can supply ships while in combat... Same going for tankers.

 As for actual combat efficiency, well, depends on its design.

Unless it changed in 7.x you can happily reload from other ships in combat, refuel and send maintenance supplies to needy ships (as long as they are in one fleet). Magazines make ships military, so depending on you designs you might just send them into battle with the others, add some armor, and give the enemy more targets to shoot. I'd usually give them bigger fuel tanks as well. Proper tankers can be civilian ships, so I tend to leave them at the jump point. (outside) They might not even be able to get all the way because they don't have jumpdrives, something that occured to me only now...
I have two or three systems with Precursors, but I can't really be bothered because at this time it is just slaughter. My big lasers have ~50% to hit in area defence mode, the PD turrets have 100% even against their AMMs. (of which I found 14k)
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acidia

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17431 on: January 27, 2016, 08:15:24 pm »

Halp!  In the newer versions you can create a neutral population on your home planet to feed your colonial holdings when you start out with a small initial population... well my long time ally just found my home planet and decided that he didn't like my neutral friends and just dropped 732 radiation and dust on my home planet as an opening move... my fleet is weeks away and my army is already set to invade the neutral power but that won't happen for a few days.  Any tips?

Edit:  Warning, the colony switched to my ally and my troops invaded anyways... so I'm now at war with my former ally. 
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 10:03:37 pm by acidia »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17432 on: January 27, 2016, 10:04:32 pm »

Alright, I've designed my first actual missile, but am unsure on the specifics.
I skimped on sensors due to the assumption that the firing ship will handle that for the missile, so I don't have to waste space on the sensors. As for everything else, I really have no idea what I did.

Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 39.8 MSP  (1.99 HS)     Warhead: 80    Armour: 2     Manoeuvre Rating: 24
Speed: 5000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 8.6 hours   Range: 155.5m km
Active Sensor Strength: 1.8   Sensitivity Modifier: 80%
Resolution: 1    Maximum Range vs 50 ton object (or larger): 140 000 km
Cost Per Missile: 37.272
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 120%   3k km/s 24%   5k km/s 24%   10k km/s 12%
Materials Required:    20.5x Tritanium   1.08x Boronide   1.8x Uridium   13.892x Gallicite   Fuel x2500

Development Cost for Project: 3727RP
Ideally this missile will mostly be deployed in my PDCs. Hence the range (which I have no idea is high or not?? I NEED REFERENCE POIIINTS). If it's not horrible, I'll also probably put it in my early combat ships. Is there anything I missed?
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Aseaheru

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17433 on: January 27, 2016, 10:15:12 pm »

 Theres a setting somewhere that gives range in AU, which helps a bit.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17434 on: January 27, 2016, 10:31:57 pm »

Alright, I've designed my first actual missile, but am unsure on the specifics.
I skimped on sensors due to the assumption that the firing ship will handle that for the missile, so I don't have to waste space on the sensors. As for everything else, I really have no idea what I did.

Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 39.8 MSP  (1.99 HS)     Warhead: 80    Armour: 2     Manoeuvre Rating: 24
Speed: 5000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 8.6 hours   Range: 155.5m km
Active Sensor Strength: 1.8   Sensitivity Modifier: 80%
Resolution: 1    Maximum Range vs 50 ton object (or larger): 140 000 km
Cost Per Missile: 37.272
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 120%   3k km/s 24%   5k km/s 24%   10k km/s 12%
Materials Required:    20.5x Tritanium   1.08x Boronide   1.8x Uridium   13.892x Gallicite   Fuel x2500

Development Cost for Project: 3727RP
Ideally this missile will mostly be deployed in my PDCs. Hence the range (which I have no idea is high or not?? I NEED REFERENCE POIIINTS). If it's not horrible, I'll also probably put it in my early combat ships. Is there anything I missed?

It's garbage.  It's slow and too big/expensive.  Aurora's missile designer is lousy because it goes from 1k km/s to 10k km/s, when enemy warships typically go from 10k km/s to 40k km/s, so newer players think they're designing sufficiently fast missiles when they're not.  And did you see that Research cost?  You could research an upgrade to almost two of your starting techs for the cost of learning to build that missile.  I generally design my missiles after my missile firing control, but typically the range is wasted at lower tech levels.

Missile tactics in Aurora are generally focused on volume.  You generally want to fire 20 warhead 4 missiles rather than 1 warhead 80 missile.  Speaking of which, you don't really get a benefit for fractions, so you should design them up to your desired size rather than leave a fraction.

Speaking of which, you'll want to prioritize missile launcher reduction tech.  You want one large salvo rather than many small ones.

Shooer

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17435 on: January 27, 2016, 10:33:51 pm »

A few things:
1) That is one slow missile, my military ships with ion engines can out run it.  Not only will it never actually hit anything it will be out ran by almost everything.
2) As a PDC fired missile that range is... ok I guess.  I never design a armed missile just for PDCs, I just use my normal missiles or MIRVs.
3) You also still have a sensor on there.  Which is only good for dumbfire or if the target was destroyed while in the missile was in flight.

I say swap out that huge warhead and replace it with size 1 sub munitions, would make that thing at least viable.

I'd also remove the sensor and the armor and give that to more sub munitions.

My early missiles have a range of about 50-60k and an aimed for speed of 15km.  That speed is usually capped by my engine power modifier tech these days.

Also if you want references you can use the ruler tool.
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coleslaw35

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17436 on: January 27, 2016, 10:34:12 pm »

Alright, I've designed my first actual missile, but am unsure on the specifics.
I skimped on sensors due to the assumption that the firing ship will handle that for the missile, so I don't have to waste space on the sensors. As for everything else, I really have no idea what I did.

Missile Size: 39.8 MSP  (1.99 HS)     Warhead: 80    Armour: 2     Manoeuvre Rating: 24
Speed: 5000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 8.6 hours   Range: 155.5m km
Active Sensor Strength: 1.8   Sensitivity Modifier: 80%
Resolution: 1    Maximum Range vs 50 ton object (or larger): 140 000 km
Cost Per Missile: 37.272
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 120%   3k km/s 24%   5k km/s 24%   10k km/s 12%
Materials Required:    20.5x Tritanium   1.08x Boronide   1.8x Uridium   13.892x Gallicite   Fuel x2500

Development Cost for Project: 3727RP

Ideally this missile will mostly be deployed in my PDCs. Hence the range (which I have no idea is high or not?? I NEED REFERENCE POIIINTS). If it's not horrible, I'll also probably put it in my early combat ships. Is there anything I missed?

I don't know what your tech level is, so what I have may not be feasible for you yet.

This is a ~100 ton missile you're firing. 1 Hull Size (HS) is 50 tons and your missile is 1.99 HS. You'd need a massive launcher to fire the things and gigantic magazines just to hold a few missiles. 5000 km/s for a missile is quite slow, but I suppose it depends on who you're going to be using it against. Conventional NPR? Sure! Precursors/Invaders? No! The range is particularly low as well. Longer ranged missiles usually have some fuel efficiency to them in order to increase their range quite dramatically. Multiple fuel efficient ones are sometimes better than a few inefficient ones.

You asked for reference, so here's my missile design. By all means, it isn't perfect. Heck, if anyone wants to give me suggestions go right ahead.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT: You guys ninja'd me hard. :P
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origamiscienceguy

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17437 on: January 27, 2016, 10:43:34 pm »

Could you add a bit more fuel to get the missile to an even size 9?
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Shooer

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17438 on: January 27, 2016, 10:47:49 pm »

I'd also say that's one slow ass missile for IF tech.  I aim for that speed at Ion.  Also that is a little big for my tastes, you'll find that reloading speed, costs, missile speed and range are more efficient around size 5 and 4.
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Drakale

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17439 on: January 27, 2016, 10:49:50 pm »

The huge missile could be launched along with another MIRV version of the same size, to overwhelm defenses. It still have the issue that it's kinda slow, but the explosion would be pretty satisfying if it does hit, that's like 9 layer deep of armor right there. Not efficient for sure, but pretty fun, especially as a planetary defense deal.
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coleslaw35

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17440 on: January 27, 2016, 11:49:13 pm »

Could you add a bit more fuel to get the missile to an even size 9?

I would've, but I didn't like how much it decreased the speed and maneuverable. Plus, I think it added up to about 1 billion km range, which none of my fire controls can reach, if I'm correct. I'm not sure. I've gotta go to sleep so maybe I'll check tomorrow if I remember.

I'd also say that's one slow ass missile for IF tech.  I aim for that speed at Ion.

Tbh, I'm not sure what makes a good missile engine. I always just making something and see if it sorta works, and I guess I figured that 10k kms was good enough for my purposes. (I haven't run into any hostile NPRs or Precursors yet. Invaders turned off because I am a pleb. May turn them on just to watch my entire empire fall in the course of a few in-game weeks.)

The huge missile could be launched along with another MIRV version of the same size, to overwhelm defenses. It still have the issue that it's kinda slow, but the explosion would be pretty satisfying if it does hit, that's like 9 layer deep of armor right there. Not efficient for sure, but pretty fun, especially as a planetary defense deal.

What's a MIRV?
And yeah, I like big booms. :P
I think I just overestimated my potential enemy's armor. Plus, I couldn't remember the formula for damage so I figured 16 would be fine enough.


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Shooer

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17441 on: January 28, 2016, 12:13:30 am »

MIRV stands for Multiple Independently Targetable Reentry Vehicle, most of your standard ICBMs are MIRVs.  The term is used here to mean a offensive missile that carries sub munitions, where the carrier missile is harmless.  If you are getting over size 20 in your missiles it's best to just go with subs than warhead on the missile it's self.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is my a missile for a game I just started at early Ion tech. 
16 damage is fine, if you can hit.  The ratio I use for engines for missiles is at least 80% for a AMM and 60% for a ASM.  It's MUCH more fuel efficient to use one engine for missiles, especially if you are using more than 3.  If you are just figuring it out design a .1 missile engine to get an idea then do a new engine for the exact size you want.

When designing I design to fight my self if I haven't run into anyone yet.  It's how most people on Earth have been doing it for ever.  If you don't know what's out there then design your combat style to fight your self.  So if your ships go 5K then make sure your missiles have a good chance to hit something going 5K.  Your missiles going 20K, then make AMMs that have a good chance to hit something going 20K.
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Dramegno

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17442 on: January 28, 2016, 08:57:32 am »

this is my first attempt at any kind of recon type stuff outside of my old slow servey barge so can I get some feed back before I mass produce anything.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I am currently researching better thermal and em sensor tech I have not been giving them the love that I should.
Also I plan on limiting the non-combat speed to around 500-1000 km/s for the better range and lower thermals.
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Rince Wind

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17443 on: January 28, 2016, 09:04:51 am »

Do you plan on using them from a carrier? If so, you won't need the long deployment time. You could also skip the engineering spaces, maybe just use one fighter one. If not, even flying at 500km/sec will not give you enough range to do much, better to just use a single more fuel efficient engine. They are completly useless in combat, unless you want to use them as ablative armor to suck up some AMM hits, and even then it would be a bad design for that.

And with recon I associated something different. I thought active or passive sensors to find out about military targets, not a geosurvey vessel.
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17444 on: January 28, 2016, 09:59:42 am »

Also it has 4 days of fuel, which means you'll need a tug for when you forget to refuel it between hops and it gets stranded.
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