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Author Topic: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games  (Read 2848222 times)

da_nang

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17235 on: January 22, 2016, 06:06:59 am »

Spoiler: Thoughts on designs? (click to show/hide)
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Rince Wind

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17236 on: January 22, 2016, 08:28:09 am »

You use a lot of ressources to bring very little firepower to the field.
I'd use half the engines, so 5k km/sec and bring more punch. And it is better to specialize the ships. You bring three ships that all have ASMs and two have AMMs (and 2 launchers are not enough). Better to put all the AMMs on one ship class and have a better ratio of weight to launchers and firecontrols. I usually slave 4-5 AMM launchers to a fire control and on a ship of that size I'd have way more. Your 30kt ship only brings 24 missiles and the jumpdrive. You also have very small ASM salvos, making it easy for the enemy defence to shoot them down.
Your laser fire controls have a lot more range than the lasers themselves. While that might improve the to hit chances, your lasers will do very little damage.
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Dramegno

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17237 on: January 22, 2016, 10:34:27 am »

I have decided to try for a Borg style military doctrine I.e. the disabling and capturing of enemy forces when ever I can.

So is their any good examples for that style of military play ship design and logistically?

So far I am thinking about a FAC Stealth fleet with focus on defense and/or speed that has the ability to launch mason fighters that with combat drop (size 1) modules if I can fit both on the same fighter and still haul ass around the battlefield.

And do I need to even think about arming the fighters with AMMs if they can outrun the fastest ones I can reasonably make at the moment?
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17238 on: January 22, 2016, 10:36:38 am »

I have decided to try for a Borg style military doctrine I.e. the disabling and capturing of enemy forces when ever I can.

So is their any good examples for that style of military play ship design and logistically?

So far I am thinking about a FAC Stealth fleet with focus on defense and/or speed that has the ability to launch mason fighters that with combat drop (size 1) modules if I can fit both on the same fighter and still haul ass around the battlefield.

And do I need to even think about arming the fighters with AMMs if they can outrun the fastest ones I can reasonably make at the moment?

don't know if you can fit it but microwave seems a best match for it, meson has a higher chance of triggering secondary explosions
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Rince Wind

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17239 on: January 22, 2016, 11:12:52 am »

And maybe some special "can openers" with lasers, so your marines don't have to cut through the armor.
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Rince Wind

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17240 on: January 22, 2016, 11:39:10 am »

Spoiler: Thoughts on designs? (click to show/hide)

Something else: for proper military ships I would not look too much on fuel efficiency. Use engines with normal power, not with a modifier <1. I also like to use not the biggest possible engine, as then you have more left when one gets inevitably hit in combat. Same reason why I wouldn't use ultra large fuel tanks on vessels that are supposed to see combat. Those things get hit way to often.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17241 on: January 22, 2016, 12:40:59 pm »

Railguns are useful for Point Defense due to their multishot
It's been so long since I used railguns that I don't remember for certain whether this is wrong, but my gut says that it is. As far as I'm aware the fact that railguns are multi-projectile only matters because it explains their damage profile against ship armor. PD fire is one hit = one dead missile, and all of the railgun projectiles are counted as a single attack.

Nope, each of the four shots of a railgun is counted as a separate attack, so it can hit multiple missiles. The thing that makes railguns only good for PD before you tech up your gauss fire rate, is that they can't be turreted, so are limited in tracking speed.

Oh, cool.

But yeah, there's a reason I didn't know that, and part of it is what you've already mentioned about turrets. The other part is that the railgun damage pattern is pretty useless against almost everything, and only really has a good sweet-spot range at the outer limits of high-tech railgun/laser ranges.
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Aurora on small monitors:
1. Game Parameters -> Reduced Height Windows.
2. Lock taskbar to the right side of your desktop.
3. Run Resize Enable

Dorsidwarf

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17242 on: January 22, 2016, 01:20:36 pm »

Aurora is acting weird. All the political events are pausing the auto-run, and it keeps losing focus on the window I'm working with
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origamiscienceguy

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17243 on: January 22, 2016, 03:34:33 pm »

is there a way to make certain events not auto pause the game?
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Mini

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17244 on: January 22, 2016, 05:26:16 pm »

Not unless you're Steve.
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Rince Wind

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17245 on: January 22, 2016, 05:27:54 pm »

Destroyed the Swarm next to Sol. There was a tight moment, because I had forgotten that one of the ships is also a carrier and I had left my FAC escort and their carriers at the jump point, because I had destroyed (most of) the FACs in an earlier battle. But they made the mistake of coming in range of my escorts, and their quad turrets made short work of them. The other ships lasers fire too slow for that kind of engagement.
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Karlito

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17246 on: January 22, 2016, 09:54:33 pm »

Plasma torpedoes don't appear in the game any longer. They were removed for performance reasons. If you modify the database to give yourself the technologies, the weapons simply don't work. I think the missile engine changes several versions ago broke them for good.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17247 on: January 22, 2016, 11:14:25 pm »

Oh damn, really? I must have missed that changelog. Guess that explains why the Invaders I ran into were firing missiles.

But if you're still curious, GO, here's the gist of it: plasma torpedoes were Invader-only. Functionally they were hybrids of EW and missiles: they used the power recharge mechanic rather than ammunition, but they created persistent tracking projectiles like missiles. They had damage which scaled down across their range, similar to lasers: initially the torpedoes would be whatever the launcher's power rating was, but their strength would drop off until it eventually either impacted for 1 damage or dissipated at maximum range. This created a very distinctive signature in combat where you'd appear to be taking missile fire but the strength of the hits would vary at different ranges; this was one of the three major identifiers of Invader ships (the others being the wormholes and distinctive properties of their shields).

Basically they were the main incentive to include Invaders in a campaign despite them formerly being game-killers by way of slowdown (since Invaders and Swarm + Precursors would constantly sensor-check each other but IIRC didn't actually fight, and Invaders could appear in any genned system, so even a single active NPR could spawn enough to generate infinite interrupts). Most of the benefits of missiles (albeit weaker and shorter ranged) with no ammo requirement. IIRC they were also pretty difficult to shoot down, and lasers might have been more effective against them than other PD.

That said, there's no reason to not play with Invaders on now thanks to the interrupt reform; they're still a good challenge and their other piece of unique tech is worth picking up.

Oh, and speaking of Invaders, my campaign was lost when I fixed an error, so I had to start a new one. Ended up getting lucky with my starting researchers and didn't start running into things until ~35 years in, so my tech is much higher than before.


At any rate, I've also got better defenses. I've got two of each of the first two in Earth orbit with two of the third in production.
Code: [Select]
Armageddon class Orbital Weapon Platform    40,000 tons     775 Crew     9863.6 BP      TCS 800  TH 0  EM 9000
1 km/s     Armour 21-104     Shields 300-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 54     PPV 160
Maint Life 2.29 Years     MSP 3699    AFR 533%    IFR 7.4%    1YR 958    5YR 14374    Max Repair 1800 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 3680   

Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres    Range N/A
Taurus Defence Industries Xi R300/360 Shields (60)   Total Fuel Cost  900 Litres per hour  (21,600 per day)

Ortan-Vitellus Heavy Industries CIWS-250 (5x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 25000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Paidar Megacorp Size 4 Missile Launcher (50% Reduction) (80)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 200
Mkvenner-Boruta Technology Missile Fire Control FC386-R20 (2)     Range 386.4m km    Resolution 20
Javelin-4 II (920)  Speed: 21,900 km/s   End: 251.2m    Range: 330.1m km   WH: 6    Size: 4    TH: 219/131/65

Tridon Syndicate Active Search Sensor MR643-R20 (1)     GPS 36000     Range 644.0m km    Resolution 20

ECCM-1 (2)         ECM 10
Code: [Select]
Resilience class Orbital Weapon Platform    40,000 tons     675 Crew     11055.8 BP      TCS 800  TH 0  EM 9000
1 km/s     Armour 21-104     Shields 300-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 50     PPV 476.96
Maint Life 1.28 Years     MSP 3455    AFR 640%    IFR 8.9%    1YR 2202    5YR 33024    Max Repair 1800 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 1   

Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres    Range N/A
Taurus Defence Industries Xi R300/360 Shields (60)   Total Fuel Cost  900 Litres per hour  (21,600 per day)

Twin Valefar Heavy Industries Gauss Cannon R4-100 Turret (16x8)    Range 40,000km     TS: 25000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 4    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Gordian Heavy Industries FC-PD S02 24-20000 (4)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 20000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0

Prometheus-Mikelus Sensor Systems Active Search Sensor MR144-R1 (1)     GPS 1800     Range 144.0m km    MCR 15.7m km    Resolution 1
Code: [Select]
Resilience II class Orbital Weapon Platform    60,000 tons     1060 Crew     18950.2 BP      TCS 1200  TH 0  EM 15000
1 km/s     Armour 34-136     Shields 500-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 56     PPV 600
Maint Life 1.14 Years     MSP 5231    AFR 1086%    IFR 15.1%    1YR 4067    5YR 61005    Max Repair 1800 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 0   
Cryogenic Berths 1000   

Fuel Capacity 1,500,000 Litres    Range N/A
Taurus Defence Industries Xi R300/360 Shields (100)   Total Fuel Cost  1,500 Litres per hour  (36,000 per day)

Twin Valefar Heavy Industries Gauss Cannon R5-100 Turret (24x10)    Range 50,000km     TS: 25000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 5    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Maladon Incorporated FC-PD S02 32-25000 (6)    Max Range: 64,000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     84 69 53 37 22 6 0 0 0 0

Lorien Limited AMS MR252-R1 (1)     GPS 1800     Range 252.0m km    MCR 27.4m km    Resolution 1
Prometheus-Mikelus Sensor Systems Active Search Sensor MR144-R1 (1)     GPS 1800     Range 144.0m km    MCR 15.7m km    Resolution 1

ECM 10

If it wasn't obvious, I had my kickass P&P and Defense research leads hogging all the labs for something like twenty years. I'm waiting for a bit more work to finish before I start designing stealth corvettes to poke the Invaders with.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 11:24:05 pm by Flying Dice »
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Aurora on small monitors:
1. Game Parameters -> Reduced Height Windows.
2. Lock taskbar to the right side of your desktop.
3. Run Resize Enable

Karlito

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17248 on: January 22, 2016, 11:30:46 pm »

Lol @ Moldovan invaders

(since Invaders and Swarm + Precursors would constantly sensor-check each other but IIRC didn't actually fight, and Invaders could appear in any genned system, so even a single active NPR could spawn enough to generate infinite interrupts).

As Steve explained it to me, the problem was that plasma torps allowed the invaders to fire at Swarm Motherships from beyond their own range, but were too weak to wear down their shields. This led to never ending battles. Normally, I'd link the aurora forum thread, but...
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MarcAFK

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #17249 on: January 22, 2016, 11:49:57 pm »

Invaders do still have other unique techs though. Not as unique as plasma torps but still pretty sweet.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also I was under the impression that particle beams are plasma torpedoes under a different name, but I guess the range was severely nerfed?
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They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.
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