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[Flying Dice]

Unfortunately physics just proved recently (2003?) that gravity doesn't work faster than light which a lot of HH plot works around (and maybe the starfire books?).
Pity... I hate it when science gets in the way of a good plot.

That's not a recent result. We knew since general relativity that gravity should move at the speed of light, and very definitely not faster; it  should not be slower, but that causes way less quirks than being faster: loss of causality.

On a different topic, I forget, how is it explained that the TN materials move with the stars in the solar system(since the solar system itself is moving through the galaxy and all)?

I'm not actually sure if it ever was. Presumably the answer would be technobabble, that the TNs are somehow affected by gravitational fields despite being out of phase with reality (or whatever, been a looooong time since I read anything related to the topic).

[se5a]

Unfortunately physics just proved recently (2003?) that gravity doesn't work faster than light which a lot of HH plot works around (and maybe the starfire books?).
Pity... I hate it when science gets in the way of a good plot.

That's not a recent result. We knew since general relativity that gravity should move at the speed of light, and very definitely not faster; it  should not be slower, but that causes way less quirks than being faster: loss of causality.

As I understand it they *proved* it recently. which is a little different from "We think it works this way due to the math indicating it should"

[Eagle_eye]

Science doesn't prove anything, it just repeatedly fails to disprove. We've had good reason to believe that nothing can propagate faster than light since the Michelson-Morley experiment, and certainly since the development of SR.

[iceball3]

On a different topic, I forget, how is it explained that the TN materials move with the stars in the solar system(since the solar system itself is moving through the galaxy and all)?

I'm not actually sure if it ever was. Presumably the answer would be technobabble, that the TNs are somehow affected by gravitational fields despite being out of phase with reality (or whatever, been a looooong time since I read anything related to the topic).

Well, for the sake of technobabble, we can assume this dimension that the TNs exist at have some degree of anchoring towards gravitational wells in terms of considering points of reference? Would make vague sense considered that gravity wells are what are used for jump points, and trailing lagrange points are used for wormholes, and the like. Effectively, the frame of reference would be the center of the heaviest object within a light year or so, which usually is a system's primary or one of those wacky black holes.

[Kruniac]

Someone needs to help Steve along so this game gets updated more frequently. A year between updates (give or take) is pretty shitty for such an epic game. -.-

[iceball3]

Someone needs to help Steve along so this game gets updated more frequently. A year between updates (give or take) is pretty shitty for such an epic game. -.-

Steve actually does not want anyone mucking about in his source code, and possibly it may not be worth the time due to the language it's in... Now, if you really want something to work on, check this out.
https://github.com/Pulsar4xDevs/Pulsar4x
Even has it's own thread too.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=126541.0
To clarify, far as i know the target is to make another aurora, but more efficient, stronger, better, faster, etc.
The problem is that it's being written from scratch, and needs a lot of help getting the engine running. Currently not even really playable, the engine needs to be finished, AND development has been untouched for the past month or so. Still, worth spreading the word in hopes of sparking interest for this project again.

[Bremen]

Someone needs to help Steve along so this game gets updated more frequently. A year between updates (give or take) is pretty shitty for such an epic game. -.-

I had a dream once that Arcen Games (The AI Wars devs) worked out a deal with Steve to develop a graphical version of Aurora. It was a nice dream.

[Kruniac]

Steve actually does not want anyone mucking about in his source code, and possibly it may not be worth the time due to the language it's in... Now, if you really want something to work on, check this out.

That's a problem.

I have the developer and database passwords, if anyone is interested in toying with the guts a tad.

Really wish someone would decompile Aurora though so we can work on it ourselves. I 100% promise that fans would be releasing updates once or more a month (Look at Cataclysm DDA).

To clarify, far as i know the target is to make another aurora, but more efficient, stronger, better, faster, etc.
The problem is that it's being written from scratch, and needs a lot of help getting the engine running. Currently not even really playable, the engine needs to be finished, AND development has been untouched for the past month or so. Still, worth spreading the word in hopes of sparking interest for this project again.

Oooo. Shiny. Checking it out, thanks.

[Flying Dice]

The people who are personally invested in Pulsar have been talking it up for a long time and nothing has ever come of it. Cata:DDA it ain't.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see it in a playable state... but I don't think it will ever get there and am not particularly motivated to sink my own time into someone else's failing project when I already enjoy Aurora as it stands. Granted, Steve took a decade to get Aurora from the first release to 6.43, but he also did it alone as a hobby that often was interrupted by real work while using a suboptimal format. Pulsar's been working in a better environment with multiple contributors since 2012 and they still don't even have the engine finished. :|

Someone needs to help Steve along so this game gets updated more frequently. A year between updates (give or take) is pretty shitty for such an epic game. -.-

I had a dream once that Arcen Games (The AI Wars devs) worked out a deal with Steve to develop a graphical version of Aurora. It was a nice dream.

It hurts to think about how cool it would be to have a 4X as mechanically complex as Aurora in a format that flows more smoothly, doesn't it? Though I'll admit that my own dreams are more like a space-based combination of SupCom and Stars! with Aurora-specific mechanics and focus.

Steve actually does not want anyone mucking about in his source code, and possibly it may not be worth the time due to the language it's in... Now, if you really want something to work on, check this out.

That's a problem.

I have the developer and database passwords, if anyone is interested in toying with the guts a tad.

Really wish someone would decompile Aurora though so we can work on it ourselves. I 100% promise that fans would be releasing updates once or more a month (Look at Cataclysm DDA).

Don't. Every time someone starts handing out the passwords he has to reset them and we all have to ask for the new ones, mostly because he doesn't want to deal with bug reports from people who've been mucking around in the DB. You're also missing a crucial point with your comparison: Whales gave up on Cataclysm and handed it over to a couple motivated, reasonable figures in the community (who did a good job carrying it on, cheers GlyphGryph and co.!). Steve is still actively working on Aurora and AFAIK still views it pretty much the same way as always, as a personal project that he's willing to share with other interested parties.

The last thing I want to see is for the community to be fractured or for Steve to stop uploading updates because someone thought it would be fine for them to start forking his work without permission, frankly. IIRC Pulsar got his blessing, such that it was, because it was a complete rewrite of the game rather than something which was intrinsically derivative.

[Kruniac]

Don't. Every time someone starts handing out the passwords he has to reset them

That would require a game update. I'd gladly sacrifice having to ask for new passwords to get an update. XD

You're also missing a crucial point with your comparison: Whales gave up on Cataclysm and handed it over to a couple motivated, reasonable figures in the community (who did a good job carrying it on, cheers GlyphGryph and co.!).

I see your point.

Steve is still actively working on Aurora and AFAIK still views it pretty much the same way as always, as a personal project that he's willing to share with other interested parties.

That has become not good enough.

The last thing I want to see is for the community to be fractured or for Steve to stop uploading updates because someone thought it would be fine for them to start forking his work without permission, frankly. IIRC Pulsar got his blessing, such that it was, because it was a complete rewrite of the game rather than something which was intrinsically derivative.

If someone started forking his work without permission and he takes his ball and goes home, it doesn't matter. We have the fork, we have the game, and we have constant updates.

At the end of the day, I feel the same way Steve does about Aurora. I just want to play it. That means updates. If he doesn't update the game, someone else should, so I can play it. It isn't an enlightened view, and you don't have to like it, but it's the way it is.


On a somewhat different note - the reasoning behind Steve not handing out passwords is shit developer nonsense. If someone bug reports something and has been messing with the DB, disregard the bug report. Keeping all of your toys to yourself so people don't break them and claim they were broke to begin with is what a five year old does.

That's almost (ALMOST, mind you) as bad as those shit devs who made Port Royale who are against modding the game. They are AGAINST MODDING. One of the BEST movements in modern gaming. Roflmao.

[Bremen]

On a somewhat different note - the reasoning behind Steve not handing out passwords is shit developer nonsense. If someone bug reports something and has been messing with the DB, disregard the bug report. Keeping all of your toys to yourself so people don't break them and claim they were broke to begin with is what a five year old does.

That's almost (ALMOST, mind you) as bad as those shit devs who made Port Royale who are against modding the game. They are AGAINST MODDING. One of the BEST movements in modern gaming. Roflmao.

No, it's not, because he doesn't know they were messing around with the designer mode or database. It would be different if Steve was hoarding the passwords or something, but he's not, he gives them out if you ask with just a polite disclaimer about "use at your own risk." You're acting like you giving out the passwords is some act of rebellion against an overly paranoid programmer.

And, as said above, if someone wants to make their own Aurora there's nothing stopping them.

[Culise]

Indeed.  It's not like people typically submit bug reports with the preface "I've been messing around with the database and I blew it up."  It's usually more along the lines of, "Your game blew up."  He will give you the password on request; the only reason it's done by request is so that he can keep track of who has passwords to the database and thus can know to follow up should that person later submit a bug report that looks odd from a database standpoint. 

[iceball3]

Indeed.  It's not like people typically submit bug reports with the preface "I've been messing around with the database and I blew it up."  It's usually more along the lines of, "Your game blew up."  He will give you the password on request; the only reason it's done by request is so that he can keep track of who has passwords to the database and thus can know to follow up should that person later submit a bug report that looks odd from a database standpoint. 

There's that, and also the sort of recognition that, externally, working on a game that's already cursed by the language it's written in that renders it extremely slow. Pulsar hasn't had a complete engine yet, but it's open source and a lot of the processes are already significantly faster in C# than whatever the heck aurora was written in. In the long term, it's just simply better if developers focus their efforts on that, rather than try to mess around with improving aurora as it is.

The people who are personally invested in Pulsar have been talking it up for a long time and nothing has ever come of it. Cata:DDA it ain't.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see it in a playable state... but I don't think it will ever get there and am not particularly motivated to sink my own time into someone else's failing project when I already enjoy Aurora as it stands. Granted, Steve took a decade to get Aurora from the first release to 6.43, but he also did it alone as a hobby that often was interrupted by real work while using a suboptimal format. Pulsar's been working in a better environment with multiple contributors since 2012 and they still don't even have the engine finished. :|

I think the big issue overall is the lack of motivation and passion into this new project, on top of the apparent lack of audience.
Also the fact that making a new engine from scratch is /hard/, especially when the people who work on it just simply can't spend as much personal time on it or even have as much experience programming it up like that. Not that I'm saying all of these are the strictest case, but it's all true for one dev or another on this project at this time.
Honestly, at least trying to contribute to the project will provide some learning experience, it's why I'm trying to read up on C# and might make some contributions in the next few months if possible. But you don't need to feel obligated to work on it if you don't want, though.

Anyway, a small digression, does anyone know a quick location i can find the 6.50 version download straight out? I kinda want to get to playing again but patching is a whole big nightmare in of itself...

[Culise]

6.50 is the upcoming version, but it hasn't been released yet.  6.43 is the most recent version, and if you want a compiled release, you might try the portable wrapper here.  I've only ever played the standard releases so I never used it myself, but I've seen people swear by it for playing off a USB or the like, and it is completely integrated up to the latest patch. 

[iceball3]

6.50 is the upcoming version, but it hasn't been released yet.  6.43 is the most recent version, and if you want a compiled release, you might try the portable wrapper here.  I've only ever played the standard releases so I never used it myself, but I've seen people swear by it for playing off a USB or the like, and it is completely integrated up to the latest patch. 

Alright, darn, but thank you nonetheless. I think i'll wipe out my other installs for the sake of sanitation and not confusing them, but yeah, here is hoping 6.50 gets released because that is a good looking feature list, my my!