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Author Topic: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games  (Read 2846635 times)

Metalax

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13740 on: July 31, 2013, 04:09:55 pm »

Too much engineering space on the ships, you want at least double the max repair figure, then only add more if you are aiming for a particular maintenance life. I tend to aim for 3 years so I don't need to resupply my ships between overhauls(overhauls rewind the clock at 3 times the time spent in overhaul, so 3 years service 1 year overhaul works out nicely).

Armour is much better now, however one thing you should note, enemies love to target your sensor ships, as the massive em emissions when their sensors are activated make them prime targets. As such you may want to put more armour onto your sensor ships.

Your missiles have too much range for your tech-level. Drop it by half on your ASM's and put the space into warhead or engines. Drop it down to around 3 million km for your AMM's and put the space into engines and agility. Adapt your active sensors and fire controls to match.

If you are facing an enemy that uses large numbers of ships midway between the standard sensors it can be worthwhile designing a specific sensor to pick them up, eg if facing large numbers of 3000 ton ships a res 60 sensor may be worth the investment.

Your cruiser needs some more tonnage in engines, it is going to be slowing down the rest of the taskgroup. I'd add another 4 engines and boost the cruiser up to 15,000 tons with other systems such as a second fire control and additional launchers.

You will definitely want to add a tanker to your taskgroup as your over-charged engines are going to burn through fuel fast.

Consider researching the reduced size launcher techline. Salvo size tends to be the most important aspect of getting missiles through point defence screens, unless your fire rate is comparable to their point defence/AMM rate. 50% size launcher tend to be the best balance for general use in ASM's coupled with a set of 2-3 times the number of box launchers to give a large alpha strike capability.

2) IMHO Resolution 40 fire controls/sensors are a bad compromise unless you're actually facing HS40 ships (2000 tons), their actual ranges against the more formidable 5000+ ton ships will be MUCH less than the listed range, so you'll be wasting a lot of the potential range of your missiles.
That's wrong. Anything of at least 2000 tons will show up at the listed ranges on the sensor ships active sensor. It is only if the target is below the listed resolution that you see a reduction in detection range.

Still, I'll agree that resolution 40 is not a good compromise spot, it is too large to get any reasonable detection on FAC's or fighters while not really being efficient for detecting large ships.

Typical resolutions I will use are;
Res 1 for detecting missiles and close fighters. As missile size 6 missiles will only get detected at 1/9th the listed range, aim for a range of 18-20 million km giving a missile detection range of 2 million km. At low tech levels you are unlikely to be able to do better without enormous sensors.
Res 10 for picking up fighters at longer distances. - This is the one that most often gets skipped if space need to be saved, the overlap between res 1 and FAC sensors can make it unneeded.
Res 20 for picking up FAC's. - Or Res 16 if expecting one of the spoiler races.
Res 100 for picking up ships below light-destroyer size.
Res 500 for picking up any real ships.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 04:13:28 pm by Metalax »
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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13741 on: July 31, 2013, 05:10:50 pm »

Heh, I just use Res 16 and Res 1. I usually deal with the issue of low sensor tech by building dedicated sensor ships which are basically a 50HS R16 AS strapped to a bunch of engines. I'm sure some of you know exactly why Res 16 is significant, too.  :P
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EuchreJack

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13742 on: August 01, 2013, 10:17:40 pm »

Could anyone give tips as to how to get back into this game? I mean, I've played it before, but... something always snags me while playing that makes me stop.

A combination of following this very thread and watching a lot of starship-based sci-fi generally brings me back to this game every once in a while.

You could also mention what snags you in this forum, and you might get advice that pushes you on.

FritzPL

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13743 on: August 02, 2013, 12:46:36 am »

Well, how did you learn to play Kerbal Space Program? Trial and error, and that is exactly how you learn to play Aurora. People here are pretty quick to respond when it comes to ship designs(and what's wrong with them) so don't hestitate to ask. Maybe I'll get back into Aurora myself ;)

Sheb

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13744 on: August 02, 2013, 04:26:14 am »

An idea I've been toying with is to set up a forum game where I play only with community-submitted designs and tech, but otherwise don't follow suggestions to keep the workload manageable.

You could do that, you'll get to play while basically outsourcing the military design process, which will give you a lot of hindsight in what makes a good design. 
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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13745 on: August 02, 2013, 05:58:31 am »

As Fritz said, the fastest way to learn shipbuilding is to start making designs and post them here. I can only speak for myself (though I think this probably applies to a lot of us), but it's a lot of fun troubleshooting them.
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Carnwennan

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13746 on: August 02, 2013, 08:23:48 am »

Well, it's usually in regards to military. When I start thinking on how to set it all up... it just ends up being too daunting. I mean, I know nothing on how a decent military in Aurora works.

Funny, that is the exact same thing that kept me from playing too far into aurora the first time.
I found that setting a game to produce ship designs on game start gave me a good idea of what I should try for in terms of military. I copied a few designs with tweaks into a different game, and a martian NPR to force me into learning how to use it or die trying :P. For example, before I did that, I thought 10 lasers were enough to pose significant threat  :).

This martian NPR is a pushover, by the way. My troop transport will be done next year. Enslavement is just around the corner!

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SOLDIER First

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13747 on: August 02, 2013, 08:27:43 am »

posting to remember
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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13748 on: August 02, 2013, 11:25:09 pm »

Set up a new campaign, and I've got some TL1-3ish designs and a basic formulation of fleet composition.

Code: [Select]
Apollo class Missile Frigate    9,000 tons     190 Crew     1483.56 BP      TCS 180  TH 900  EM 0
5000 km/s     Armour 5-38     Shields 0-0     Sensors 24/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 25.6
Maint Life 3.33 Years     MSP 515    AFR 129%    IFR 1.8%    1YR 70    5YR 1054    Max Repair 160 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 2   
Magazine 512    Cryogenic Berths 200   

General Dynamics I-150 Drive (6)    Power 150    Fuel Use 110.05%    Signature 150    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 3.6 billion km   (8 days at full power)

X/O Rail-4 (16)    Missile Size 4    Hangar Reload 30 minutes    MF Reload 5 hours
GHWS Striker-4 3x5 (8)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 200
Combat Avionics MFC16-115 (1)     Range 115.2m km    Resolution 16
Sabre AS4 I (128)  Speed: 15,000 km/s   End: 154.6m    Range: 139.2m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 100/60/30

Coral Systems AS16-38 (1)     GPS 2560     Range 38.4m km    Resolution 16
Coral Systems TS-24 (1)     Sensitivity 24     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  24m km

Code: [Select]
River class Recon Frigate    9,000 tons     237 Crew     1703.88 BP      TCS 180  TH 900  EM 0
5000 km/s     Armour 5-38     Shields 0-0     Sensors 24/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 8     PPV 16
Maint Life 3.7 Years     MSP 947    AFR 81%    IFR 1.1%    1YR 108    5YR 1614    Max Repair 480 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 2   
Magazine 240   

General Dynamics I-150 Drive (6)    Power 150    Fuel Use 110.05%    Signature 150    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 3.6 billion km   (8 days at full power)

GHWS Striker-4 3x5 (8)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 200
Combat Avionics MFC16-115 (1)     Range 115.2m km    Resolution 16
Sabre AS4 I (60)  Speed: 15,000 km/s   End: 154.6m    Range: 139.2m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 100/60/30

Coral Systems AS16-115 (1)     GPS 7680     Range 115.2m km    Resolution 16
Coral Systems TS-24 (1)     Sensitivity 24     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  24m km

Code: [Select]
Griffin class Frigate    9,000 tons     260 Crew     1267 BP      TCS 180  TH 900  EM 0
5000 km/s     Armour 8-38     Shields 0-0     Sensors 24/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 36
Maint Life 3.22 Years     MSP 440    AFR 129%    IFR 1.8%    1YR 64    5YR 961    Max Repair 160 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 1   
Cryogenic Berths 200   

General Dynamics I-150 Drive (6)    Power 150    Fuel Use 110.05%    Signature 150    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 3.6 billion km   (8 days at full power)

GHWS R15-3-1 (6x4)    Range 90,000km     TS: 5000 km/s     Power 9-1     RM 3    ROF 45        3 3 3 2 1 1 1 1 1 0
Combat Avionics BFC Mod 1b (1)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 6000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
General Dynamics GC Fusion Core (2)     Total Power Output 9    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Coral Systems AS16-38 (1)     GPS 2560     Range 38.4m km    Resolution 16
Coral Systems TS-24 (1)     Sensitivity 24     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  24m km

Code: [Select]
Gladiator class Escort    8,500 tons     238 Crew     1139.2 BP      TCS 170  TH 1200  EM 0
7058 km/s     Armour 3-37     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 48
Maint Life 3.51 Years     MSP 419    AFR 115%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 52    5YR 782    Max Repair 75 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 1   

General Dynamics I-150 Drive (8)    Power 150    Fuel Use 110.05%    Signature 150    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 235,000 Litres    Range 4.5 billion km   (7 days at full power)

GHWS Coilgun 2/2 (8x2)    Range 20,000km     TS: 7058 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 100%     RM 2    ROF 5        1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Combat Avionics Coilgun Special (2)    Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     69 37 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0


The basic setup I'm aiming for will be battlegroups of 3x Apollo and 1x River, retaining that structure while transitioning the latter into dual role jump tenders once I get JD tech. The Griffins are there for leavening against hard targets, and to soak damage from enemy missile ships. They and the Gladiators will be deployed based on need. Heh, I'm actually forgoing lasers this time, and railguns are practically unknown territory for me. No AMMs until I'm far enough up the ballistics techs that they'll be halfway decent. Lay the critique on me.
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Metalax

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13749 on: August 03, 2013, 06:49:41 am »

Only one I can see any issue with is the Gladiator escort.

Probably may be somewhat ocd but fill that 500 tons discrepancy with the other ships. Armour/fuel/cryo pods/etc.

I wouldn't use full size gauss cannons, drop them down to size 4 and you can fit more on the ship where the crew grade modifier results in an overall increase in hits.

Why the higher speed? There seems to be no need for it if they are acting as escorts. Drop down to the same as the others and you should be able to fit more guns.

edit: Just spotted you are not turreting the gauss cannons. You have the space to spare to do so particularly if you do drop the guns down to size 4.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 06:51:51 am by Metalax »
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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13750 on: August 03, 2013, 10:04:10 am »

Heh, I actually made that design as an exercise in flawed shipbuilding. The biggest issue is that there's no R1 active sensor, so the most they can do is FDF if they happen to be targeted. Also, my turret tech and FC tech are both at 2k km/s, so having both turrets with a tracking speed high enough to make a significant difference and FCs that could keep up would massively overload them.

Re: Size. Fair enough. I just remembered that aspect of it, because otherwise IIRC the size/CTH modifier doesn't effect the efficiency per ton.

Basically, they're pretty fucked up, but I don't really have the tech to build ships that can be an effective missile screen, so these are intended for use against missile-heavy targets, to charge ahead of the fleet and soak up fire. I could probably do better with FACs, but again, tech is too low for high speed engines.
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deoloth

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13751 on: August 03, 2013, 09:13:13 pm »

I have an annoying issue and i cant remember if there was a way to stop it.

On a ship i have a size 3 and a size 6 launcher.

During a combat the ship keeps loading the size 3 missiles into both launchers and ignoring the size 6 missiles. Even when i manually load the size 6 missiles, they stay in for about half the reload period of combat before suddenly the game just auto switches them into the size 3 missiles and fires them.

I am using the combat overview menu to set ammunition orders, though i have tried manually setting ship ammunition settings in the individual ship screen, yet they refuse to stick to the size 6 missiles that pack a bigger punch. (Both design with same tech btw).

-Edit-

Well its going now. Don't think i did anything i didnt do before but it finally stop shooting 3s and started on 6s.

On the upside its the first time ive ever seen a NPR do what seemed like a focused effort to invade me beside just some general harassment. Bunch of 32k sized ships with smaller 7k escorts are hitting a WH into sol on my 17th year into this game, havent even messed with SM mode or anything.

Florianópolis Empire really wants me to destroy them.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 09:20:20 pm by deoloth »
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Karlito

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13752 on: August 04, 2013, 08:48:30 pm »

It did work at one point. Can't say I've tried it recently.
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Carnwennan

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13753 on: August 04, 2013, 08:57:45 pm »

Gonna run a quick test, results pending!

E: Well, that took a bit less than 10 minutes (I was running the sim before I posted).

The first time, I set the sun to cool, and entered. Nothing happened. I back out and the select screen said there was no disaster. I notice the 'save' button in the lower left corner, hit that after setting it back to cooling sun and that worked: two years after enabling that, Earth... warmed three degrees? The luminosity of the sun has increased, so that is probably it but whatever, there was a change. GOnna run this a bit longer, maybe 20 years or so then come back.

E2: I am probably being stupid, but I thought a cooling star would get -you know- cooler.
Luminosity is up to 1.3 by year 2050, Earth is up to a base temp of 5.5C, from -12.1C. Hardly a cataclysmic rate of heating, but I suppose it would get dangerous at some point.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 09:17:24 pm by Carnwennan »
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Tarran

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #13754 on: August 04, 2013, 10:45:01 pm »

If I recall correctly there might not be such thing as cataclysmic heating, as anti-greenhouse gas can cool a planet below absolute zero.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 10:46:37 pm by Tarran »
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