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Author Topic: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games  (Read 2817797 times)

RedKing

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9465 on: January 06, 2012, 03:00:46 pm »

What kind of star is the primary, an O9-I??
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forsaken1111

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9466 on: January 06, 2012, 03:01:42 pm »

The hyper-exclusion zone on the main is 14500 AU radius.  Don't ask me why, but it literally almost reaches the orbit circle of my star.

Also, 15000 AU translates to 2.25 trillion KM.  It's not really feasible even if you factor in infinite fuel, just by sheer TRAVEL TIME.
I... oh.

You should just start a new game.
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Jay

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9467 on: January 06, 2012, 04:02:28 pm »

You should just start a new game.
And I did.  Now I'm on a moon.  One of 24 orbiting the same planet within half a Mercury's orbit.

We complete an orbit in 2.51 days.
No axial tilt, so no seasons, but...
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Mishimanriz: Histories of Pegasi and Dictionaries

RedKing

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9468 on: January 06, 2012, 04:18:04 pm »

I'm guessing you're also tidal locked (at that distance, and that short of an orbital period, you'd virtually have to be or the planet would be spinning so fast it'd rip apart).

Hey, at least there's a lot of potential CMCs.
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Jacob/Lee

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9469 on: January 06, 2012, 04:20:05 pm »

The hyper-exclusion zone on the main is 14500 AU radius.  Don't ask me why, but it literally almost reaches the orbit circle of my star.

Also, 15000 AU translates to 2.25 trillion KM.  It's not really feasible even if you factor in infinite fuel, just by sheer TRAVEL TIME.
Mother of god.

Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9470 on: January 06, 2012, 05:32:13 pm »

So basically the RNG was screwing with you.



I'm really liking the 'mass single gauss turret' style of PD; one of my new HCs shot down 215 ASMs alone (I forgot to reassign my PD Cruisers FCs after the refits) without letting a single one get through, despite a 30% CTH.
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Aurora on small monitors:
1. Game Parameters -> Reduced Height Windows.
2. Lock taskbar to the right side of your desktop.
3. Run Resize Enable

Scout1

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9471 on: January 06, 2012, 05:47:34 pm »

It's that time again. Criticisms, people?


Quote
Mountain Peace class Destroyer Leader    8,000 tons     909 Crew     2160 BP      TCS 160  TH 230  EM 0
2875 km/s     Armour 3-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 40/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 56.3
Maint Life 1.81 Years     MSP 675    AFR 128%    IFR 1.8%    1YR 258    5YR 3863    Max Repair 337 MSP

Magneto-plasma Drive E9.1 (5)    Power 92    Fuel Use 91%    Signature 46    Armour 0    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 210,000 Litres    Range 51.9 billion km   (209 days at full power)

Quad 20cm C5 Far Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x4)    Range 256,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 40-20     RM 5    ROF 10        10 10 10 10 10 8 7 6 5 5
Fire Control S16 128-12000 (2)    Max Range: 256,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Stellarator Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1.15 (2)     Total Power Output 41.4    Armour 0    Exp 12%

Active Search Sensor MR4-R1 (1)     GPS 42     Range 4.6m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR282-R150 (1)     GPS 31500     Range 282.9m km    Resolution 150
Thermal Sensor TH5-40 (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  40m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9472 on: January 06, 2012, 06:03:16 pm »

This is more of a soft guideline, but you generally are only going to want to use quad turrets for PD and for secondary armament on very large ships, as anything else is using up a lot of space. Keep in mind that, as you've got thin armor, no shields, and no missiles, you're going to be eating a lot of missile fire, and you won't be able to shoot down many, especially as you've got a 10s RoF. If you've got them grouped with dedicated PD ships, they'll hit pretty hard if they survive to optimal range, but you could probably increase survivability and independence if you swapped out the 20cm turrets for 2-3 10cm PD turrets (probably twin or triple, if you want to keep tonnage down), and adding 2-3 spinal 20cms as the main armament.

Alternately, you could go for a mix between a ship like this with an antiship laser armament (if you do, use spinal mounts to reduce tonnage, freeing more up for engines and fuel), a dedicated PD destroyer with multiple 10cm turrets, and a sensor ship with a longer ranged R16 sensor. But no, there are no serious issues with it, just little quibbles over design preferences.
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Aurora on small monitors:
1. Game Parameters -> Reduced Height Windows.
2. Lock taskbar to the right side of your desktop.
3. Run Resize Enable

Metalax

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9473 on: January 06, 2012, 06:22:08 pm »

It's that time again. Criticisms, people?


Quote
Mountain Peace class Destroyer Leader    8,000 tons     909 Crew     2160 BP      TCS 160  TH 230  EM 0
2875 km/s     Armour 3-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 40/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 56.3
Maint Life 1.81 Years     MSP 675    AFR 128%    IFR 1.8%    1YR 258    5YR 3863    Max Repair 337 MSP

Magneto-plasma Drive E9.1 (5)    Power 92    Fuel Use 91%    Signature 46    Armour 0    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 210,000 Litres    Range 51.9 billion km   (209 days at full power)

Quad 20cm C5 Far Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x4)    Range 256,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 40-20     RM 5    ROF 10        10 10 10 10 10 8 7 6 5 5
Fire Control S16 128-12000 (2)    Max Range: 256,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Stellarator Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1.15 (2)     Total Power Output 41.4    Armour 0    Exp 12%

Active Search Sensor MR4-R1 (1)     GPS 42     Range 4.6m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR282-R150 (1)     GPS 31500     Range 282.9m km    Resolution 150
Thermal Sensor TH5-40 (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  40m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

No sensor to pick up fighters/facs, but thats ok if you don't mind waiting for them to hit your missile sensor range. Maintainance life looks fine for a destroyer, particularly if they are going to be sitting above a maintainance base waiting for deployment or accompanied by a supply tender.

Armour is low for a beam combatant, although ok if purely intended as an antimissile ship. Speed seems a little low generally, I don't like to slip lower than 1 engine per 1000 tons.

While not a bad design for a hybrid intended to fulfill both roles it has significant problems compared to a ship intended to fulfill one or the other. As an anti missile ship you want the rate of fire to be 5 seconds otherwise you run the risk of being overwhelmed by salvoes. As an anti-ship vessel it has far to little speed/armour to close with the enemy and survive.

If this primarily intended as a anti missile ship, you would probably do better by slipping down to 12cm C4 lasers for your turrets so as to get your rate of fire down to every 5 seconds. They will still maintain a range of 200,000km while being significantly smaller saving you at least 8 spaces per turret. The saved space can then go to improving your speed/armour.

If it is intended as an anti-ship vessel then keep the 20cm lasers but cut the tracking speed of the turrets in half as well as using a 4x range 2x speed firecontrol. Use the saved space to boost speed and armour.
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Scout1

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9474 on: January 06, 2012, 06:32:46 pm »

Huh, specialization? What's that? Yes - It is a hybrid ship. Through numbers and uniformity I will overrun my enemies! ...If I ever find them. Proxima Centurai has 8 unexplored jump points next to Sol, and this is in a 15-system game. Should be fun.
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BishopX

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9475 on: January 06, 2012, 06:36:11 pm »

Also, I can't emphasize this enough. Your ships are too slow! Especially for a beam warship, who needs to close with thier enemies. Non-NPR forces typically move at atleast 5000 km/s, which means you're dead meat, since you will never close range.
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Canalan

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9476 on: January 06, 2012, 06:41:06 pm »

Oh hey, ship criticism, I love that!  RIP MY MAIN CRUISER APART

Quote
Churchill class Cruiser    10,000 tons     975 Crew     2130.8 BP      TCS 200  TH 210  EM 0
3000 km/s     Armour 9-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 22/22/0/0     Damage Control Rating 26     PPV 38
Maint Life 18.05 Years     MSP 3131    AFR 50%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 18    5YR 273    Max Repair 134 MSP
Magazine 312   

American Driveyards Ion Engine M6 (10)    Power 60    Fuel Use 60%    Signature 21    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 150.0 billion km   (578 days at full power)

Gauss Cannon R3-100 (1x3)    Range 30,000km     TS: 4000 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 100%     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Aegis CIWS-160 (2x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Coilgun Fire Control S04 64-8000 H40 (1)    Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 37 30 22

Size 4 Cruiser Missile Launcher (EIGHT)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 30
Sidewinder Missile Fire Control FC70-R40 (2)     Range 70.1m km    Resolution 40
Size 4 Anti-ship Missile (78)  Speed: 15,000 km/s   End: 75m    Range: 67.5m km   WH: 9    Size: 4    TH: 75 / 45 / 22

Active Search Sensor MR20-R20 (1)     GPS 840     Range 20.7m km    Resolution 20
Thermal Sensor TH2-22 M (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-22 M (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22m km

Compact ECCM-1 (2)         ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

For RP reasons, the ship has to have a gauss cannon and stay under 10,000 tons.  That is the best coilgun the UNE can field, sadly. :/

BishopX

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9477 on: January 06, 2012, 06:55:44 pm »

Oh hey, ship criticism, I love that!  RIP MY MAIN CRUISER APART

Quote
Churchill class Cruiser    10,000 tons     975 Crew     2130.8 BP      TCS 200  TH 210  EM 0
3000 km/s     Armour 9-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 22/22/0/0     Damage Control Rating 26     PPV 38
Maint Life 18.05 Years     MSP 3131    AFR 50%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 18    5YR 273    Max Repair 134 MSP
Magazine 312   

American Driveyards Ion Engine M6 (10)    Power 60    Fuel Use 60%    Signature 21    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 150.0 billion km   (578 days at full power)

Gauss Cannon R3-100 (1x3)    Range 30,000km     TS: 4000 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 100%     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Aegis CIWS-160 (2x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Coilgun Fire Control S04 64-8000 H40 (1)    Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 37 30 22

Size 4 Cruiser Missile Launcher (EIGHT)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 30
Sidewinder Missile Fire Control FC70-R40 (2)     Range 70.1m km    Resolution 40
Size 4 Anti-ship Missile (78)  Speed: 15,000 km/s   End: 75m    Range: 67.5m km   WH: 9    Size: 4    TH: 75 / 45 / 22

Active Search Sensor MR20-R20 (1)     GPS 840     Range 20.7m km    Resolution 20
Thermal Sensor TH2-22 M (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-22 M (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22m km

Compact ECCM-1 (2)         ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

For RP reasons, the ship has to have a gauss cannon and stay under 10,000 tons.  That is the best coilgun the UNE can field, sadly. :/

Well, to start off you can lose one ECCM, since you can reassign them at will, and in any situation where you need to use  your gauss weaponry you won't need to have ECCM on your missle fire control. Unless you're planning on really long cruises I would say you can reduce your engineering component slightly, perhaps swapping the space for use as damage control. Although with Armor 9 by the time you start taking system damage you probably won't be combat effective any more, due to the amount of armor lost.
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Metalax

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9478 on: January 06, 2012, 08:03:30 pm »

Oh hey, ship criticism, I love that!  RIP MY MAIN CRUISER APART

Quote
Churchill class Cruiser    10,000 tons     975 Crew     2130.8 BP      TCS 200  TH 210  EM 0
3000 km/s     Armour 9-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 22/22/0/0     Damage Control Rating 26     PPV 38
Maint Life 18.05 Years     MSP 3131    AFR 50%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 18    5YR 273    Max Repair 134 MSP
Magazine 312   

American Driveyards Ion Engine M6 (10)    Power 60    Fuel Use 60%    Signature 21    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 150.0 billion km   (578 days at full power)

Gauss Cannon R3-100 (1x3)    Range 30,000km     TS: 4000 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 100%     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Aegis CIWS-160 (2x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Coilgun Fire Control S04 64-8000 H40 (1)    Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 37 30 22

Size 4 Cruiser Missile Launcher (EIGHT)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 30
Sidewinder Missile Fire Control FC70-R40 (2)     Range 70.1m km    Resolution 40
Size 4 Anti-ship Missile (78)  Speed: 15,000 km/s   End: 75m    Range: 67.5m km   WH: 9    Size: 4    TH: 75 / 45 / 22

Active Search Sensor MR20-R20 (1)     GPS 840     Range 20.7m km    Resolution 20
Thermal Sensor TH2-22 M (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-22 M (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22m km

Compact ECCM-1 (2)         ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

For RP reasons, the ship has to have a gauss cannon and stay under 10,000 tons.  That is the best coilgun the UNE can field, sadly. :/

Strip off a lot of that engineering space. You want to aim for around double supplies carried as the max repair figure, then add extra if needed to bring maintainance life up to 3-5 years. Rather excessive ammount of fuel as well, strip off most of it. If you are going to be doing long trips have a supply/fuel tanker accompany your taskgroup, along with the missile collier that you should have accompanying already. An additional reason for having only a few fuel tanks on a combat ship is that it gives less potential sources of secondary explosions.

Your weapon and firecontrol tracking speeds don't match up, you look to currently be using a 2x speed on your firecontrol for no reason. I'd actually replace the gauss cannon and ciws with dual gauss cannon turrets. If you do this then swap your firecontrol for a 1x range 4x speed one or preferably one per turret, you dont need extended range when you are using gauss weapons. Remeber to match the turrets tracking speed to that of your firecontrol.

Do you have 8 missile tubes? I don't recall aurora ever putting the actual word in the summary. 8 tubes matches up well with the 2 firecontrols you have. Any reason for having resolution 40 firecontrol? that prevents you firing on FAC's/ships under 2,000 tons even though you have active sensors to pick them up.

Missiles look ok although their hit percentages seem a little low. Have you designed them using the formulas posted earlier in the thread? edit: ah found it;
Code: [Select]
If S = the missile size,
and M = your current missile agility per MSP (depends on tech),
and T = the total MSP available for Engines plus Agility,

Then E = (T/2)+(5xS/M) is the amount of MSP that should be used for Engines
and A = (T/2)-(5xS/M) is the remaining MSP that should be used for Agility.

This produces missiles with optimised to hit chance verses comparable engine tech.

You will want a resolution 1 active sensor to pick up missiles to let your gauss cannons fire at them. It also serves to let your gauss cannons shoot at fighters/FAC's. Make sure the detects missile size 6 figure for the sensor is at least 200,000km as you can't fire at a missile until the turn after you detect it and 200,000km will let you get a shot off at any missiles travelling up to 39,000km/s.

Unlike BishopX I'd say keep both of your your ECCM's as that lets both missile firecontrols use them, and if you end up with 2 beam firecontrols for gauss turrets lets them each use them when needed as well.

I'd be inclined to strip off the EM sensor, unless you want it there for RP reasons, as a thermal is more generally useful. I normally don't mount passive sensors on combat ships at all, instead putting large passives on a dedicated sensor ship.

Fill any leftover space with more magazines. You have enough missiles for a single short engagement but assuming the enmey has reasonable point defence I'd be surprised if you were able to take out more than 2 ships with it's current stockpile.
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Canalan

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #9479 on: January 06, 2012, 08:18:55 pm »

Thanks for the critique, and to answer some of your questions:
Yes, I have eight missile tubes.  The forum smiley software made ( 8 ) into (8).
The cruiser operates with another cruiser, escorted by 4 PD destroyers.  They all escort a carrier that carries 30 fighters.  The destroyers all mount Resolution 1 sensors to facilitate PD.  This task force also contains a tanker and a collier.
Yes, both passive sensors are due to RP, as is the fact that all combat ships have them AND at least that active.  All the enemies encountered so far just fire on the carriers anyways.
The gauss cannon is for ship-to-ship engagements, not PD.  Sadly, my gauss tech is as lacking as my engine tech, so all it is is a way for me to take up hull space for when the real weapon is designed.
I suck at fire control design, seriously.
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