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[Bremen]

Personally, I remain skeptical. It's a cool idea, and I can see why it would be appealing to Steve, but trying to model newtonian movement on a system wide scale is going to be nearly impossible. Consider the mechanics of just trying to intercept another fleet; you both move towards each other and then you whizz by so fast you're lucky to get a single round in firing range. And then you have to spend the fuel to stop and reverse course to get another shot; assuming the enemy does the same and not just keep flying to your planet and bombarding it. Most 4x games use non-newtonian movement for a reason; it's more intuitive and more fun.

[Neonivek]

Because obviously Steve wouldn't want to make a fun game, and therefore wouldn't include a way to move between stars reasonably quickly.

Odd I thought the entire point was to make a more realistic Aurora. Thus ships are dealing with HUGE distances and time.

To make movement between the stars reasonable you have to assume "Faster then Light" movement which is impossible for newtonian.

Consider the mechanics of just trying to intercept another fleet; you both move towards each other and then you whizz by so fast you're lucky to get a single round in firing range. And then you have to spend the fuel to stop and reverse course to get another shot

Extrapolate and it is easier without even getting into heavy math.

[Girlinhat]

They're usually called "generation ships" where the crew is awake and lives during the voyage, but yeah.  I'm banking on some amount of hyperdrive to enable much faster travel, likely on the order of months or weeks.

[Bremen]

In addition to Newtonian Aurora, Steve sometimes calls it Aurora FTL, so yes there will be some sort of ftl travel. It just wont use warp points.

More on the mechanics though, I just don't see it working. Consider defense of a planet; against a non-moving target newtonian missiles have infinite range, so a ship could pop out of warp, launch missiles, and then dodge around to avoid return fire while the missiles take out the planet. Assuming PD works the same way as it does in Aurora, the missiles will be able to build up ridiculous velocity relative to the planet and be nearly unstoppable; it's not like they need to decelerate, after all.

[Neonivek]

Ok then I was wrong. FTL pretty much means it won't be anything like I was suggesting.

Too bad.

[Mini]

against a non-moving target newtonian missiles have infinite range

You mean a target with an entirely predictable course.
Judging by what Steve has said in this thread (I realise it is very long) the extremely high velocity missiles will infact be quite easy to counter, since they will be heading directly towards the planet (otherwise they would miss, obviously) so any active anti-missile measures set up on/around the planet (gauss PD on an orbiting satellite, for example) will have an easy time actually hitting since the angular velocity (how fast a turret would have to turn to track the missile) would be 0, practically garaunteeing a hit on the missile. Yes, it relies on detecting the missile prior to it hitting the planet, but even currently we have sensors that (after a bit of work) can detect missiles out to Mars orbit. Also, if you want truly ridiculous velocities on your missiles they will have to be very big (until very high texh levels, which bring their own problems) to contain all the fuel to make the engine run to the high velocity.

[Bremen]

against a non-moving target newtonian missiles have infinite range

You mean a target with an entirely predictable course.
Judging by what Steve has said in this thread (I realise it is very long) the extremely high velocity missiles will infact be quite easy to counter, since they will be heading directly towards the planet (otherwise they would miss, obviously) so any active anti-missile measures set up on/around the planet (gauss PD on an orbiting satellite, for example) will have an easy time actually hitting since the angular velocity (how fast a turret would have to turn to track the missile) would be 0, practically garaunteeing a hit on the missile. Yes, it relies on detecting the missile prior to it hitting the planet, but even currently we have sensors that (after a bit of work) can detect missiles out to Mars orbit. Also, if you want truly ridiculous velocities on your missiles they will have to be very big (until very high texh levels, which bring their own problems) to contain all the fuel to make the engine run to the high velocity.

You're right, I should have phrased it as "non-evading target" rather than non-moving. Any missile that's ever going to impact a target is going to have an angular velocity of 0 relative to that target, though, so I doubt that will mean 100% accuracy against it. Not to mention that it wouldn't make sense; even if a missile is coming right at a target the speed of the missile would make it harder to intercept, since the target will be much larger than the size of whatever point defense projectiles it is firing (particularly if the target is a planet).

[Neonivek]

Except your forgetting one important aspect.

FTL Missles. You cannot detect those.

[Osmosis Jones]

Except your forgetting one important aspect.

FTL Missles. You cannot detect those.

Didn't Steve talk about having to be outside the star's gravity well before being able to use the warp drive, similar to the current hypredrive? If so, you can only get FTL missiles if you're out in deep space, they'd have to drop back to sub-L at the edge of the system. Considering being able to control the entire empire concurrently implies instantaneous comms, even a lightspeed weapon would be detectable before it could travel to anything but the most out-lying planets.

[Neonivek]

Considering being able to control the entire empire concurrently implies instantaneous comms, even a lightspeed weapon would be detectable before it could travel to anything but the most out-lying planets.

What are you detecting it with exactly? Instantanious comms is done with a a specific scientific principle that cannot be used for detection to my knowledge because you have to carry it with you.

Hmmm I guess HUGE generational ships are possible if your traveling from one starsystem to a distant one instead. I hope the game allows ships so massive that they count as their own microplanet.

[Bremen]

It's pretty much confirmed sensors will be ftl. Trying to code lightspeed sensors would be nearly impossible anyways.

[Girlinhat]

I consider lightspeed sensors to be hand-wavable.  It's justifiable to say "let's keep it fun" and make it instant there.  Otherwise no one is really having fun.

[Neonivek]

I consider lightspeed sensors to be hand-wavable.  It's justifiable to say "let's keep it fun" and make it instant there.  Otherwise no one is really having fun.

Still sad missles and ships don't use the same construction set. No Giant battle ready nuclear missles. :"(

[Girlinhat]

Wait, do what?

[Neonivek]

Wait, do what?

That missle and ship construction don't use the same editor.

It is the only thing in Aurora, other then lackluster Genetic Engineering given what I know about how it is being used right now, that actually disapoints me and makes me sad.

Especially since I originally misheard and thought you could.