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[adwarf]

Make a backup of the database before you start designing a ship that large as if I recall correctly you can start getting overflow errors once you get past 100 million tons, with the possibility of corrupting the database.

Okay thanks for the tip

[Flying Dice]

And would it ever be practical?

Who gives a shit about practicality? This is Bay12.

Damn straight!

Keep in mind that if you design a small ship with the correct proportions of modules for the V_max, range, etc. that you want, you can scale it up if you keep the module ratios the same, without changing the various values. I'm not certain, but this might cease to be true once you hit the point where you are approaching ~1/3c for an infinite number of engines, as the additional power eventually becomes too insignificant to offput the mass of the engine itself, if I remember correctly. So once you got up to a few dozen thousand Photonic drives, you'd stop being able to scale it up any more. Not that there is any reason to have a carrier that size, unless you set it up to double as a sort of factory ship with massive cargo holds, so you can cart around automines, fighter factories, fuel refineries, and ordinance factories to plop down on random worlds before stripmining them for fuel and replacement fighters/missiles. Still, with sufficient preparation, you could probably make a ship like that, include a JG construction module, a few million colonists in cryoholds, and a few dozen troop bays, to make a fully sustainable worldship. You obviously wouldn't need research labs, because you wouldn't do this until you maxed out pretty much all of the fields. Or, you could leave them behind on Earth with a few million people, to continue research while you voyage among the overflow errors stars.

Macross, anyone? 

[Bremen]

Keep in mind that if you design a small ship with the correct proportions of modules for the V_max, range, etc. that you want, you can scale it up if you keep the module ratios the same, without changing the various values. I'm not certain, but this might cease to be true once you hit the point where you are approaching ~1/3c for an infinite number of engines, as the additional power eventually becomes too insignificant to offput the mass of the engine itself, if I remember correctly. So once you got up to a few dozen thousand Photonic drives, you'd stop being able to scale it up any more. Not that there is any reason to have a carrier that size, unless you set it up to double as a sort of factory ship with massive cargo holds, so you can cart around automines, fighter factories, fuel refineries, and ordinance factories to plop down on random worlds before stripmining them for fuel and replacement fighters/missiles. Still, with sufficient preparation, you could probably make a ship like that, include a JG construction module, a few million colonists in cryoholds, and a few dozen troop bays, to make a fully sustainable worldship. You obviously wouldn't need research labs, because you wouldn't do this until you maxed out pretty much all of the fields. Or, you could leave them behind on Earth with a few million people, to continue research while you voyage among the overflow errors stars.

Macross, anyone? 

Basically for any given engine there's going to be a speed a ship consisting of 100% engines would go (the speed at which the engines can propel themselves). A 100% engine ship is impossible, but if say you designed a ship that was 50% engines, it would go half that speed, 25% would go a fourth, etc. So for ships larger than a FAC speed is unaffected by size/weight, but rather percentage of weight given over to engines.

[LoSboccacc]

about asteroid mining. if you want to go the mass driver route, you can ship it out without wasting space on cargo holds using civilians contracts.

go to the place where the mass driver is, civilian tabs, select mass driver from the installations drop down, select supply,  click add contract.

go to the colony where the mass driver should be, civilian tab, select mass driver from the installations drop down, select demand, click add contract.

eventually, a mass driver will get there. for the civilian shipping to work, civilian should have at least a freighter. they will buy one only if it's cheap enough and only if there is at least an inhabited colony with enough population to make commerce profitable. Make sure you have a reasonable design for them to use, even if you won't actually build it: it should have some civilian engines, 5 holds and a couple of handlers plus the standard stuff.

[MarcAFK]

Looks like you'll have trouble making thatn 60 million ton ship:

Too many overflow errors
This is as far as I got with the military one before I get all kinds of overflow errors

Code: [Select]

Lil' Boy class Moving Earth    21,530,150 tons     1477405 Crew     12714364.5 BP      TCS 430603  TH 2500000  EM 0
5805 km/s     Armour 100-6894     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1530     PPV 99800
Maint Life 0.02 Years     MSP 2553631    AFR 2472242%    IFR 34336.7%    1YR 143263624    5YR 1    Max Repair 9000 MSP
Flag Bridge    Hangar Deck Capacity 100000 tons     Magazine 99800    Cargo 10000000    Cargo Handling Multiplier 4000    Tractor Beam     
Fuel Harvester: 100 modules producing 14000000 litres per annum

Photonic Drive E1 (5000)    Power 500    Fuel Use 10%    Signature 500    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000,000 Litres    Range 418.0 billion km   (833 days at full power)

CIWS-1000 (100x16)    Range 1000 km     TS: 100000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Nuclear Arsenal (998)    Missile Size 100    Rate of Fire 250
Missile Fire Control FC181121-R80 (998)     Range 181,121.5m km    Resolution 80
'No More Aliens' Missile (1000)  Speed: 175,000 km/s   End: 17.1m    Range: 180.1m km   WH: 300    Size: 100    TH: 6416 / 3850 / 1925

ECCM-5 (100)         ECM 50

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


il' Boy class Moving Earth    52,888,700 tons     2105030 Crew     15142086.5 BP      TCS 1057774  TH 2500000  EM 360000
2363 km/s     Armour 100-12551     Shields 12000-300     Sensors 3750/3750/0/0     Damage Control Rating 39730     PPV 100000
Maint Life 1.74 Years     MSP 9603625    AFR 563687%    IFR 7829%    1YR 3863790    5YR 57956857    Max Repair 9000 MSP
Flag Bridge    Hangar Deck Capacity 100000 tons     Troop Capacity: 400 Battalions    Magazine 1288000    Cargo 10000000    Colonists 95,000,000    Cargo Handling Multiplier 4000    Tractor Beam     
Fuel Harvester: 100 modules producing 14000000 litres per annum
Asteroid Miner: 100 module(s) producing 7000 tons per mineral per annum
Maintenance Modules: 5 module(s) capable of supporting ships of 1000 tons

Photonic Drive E1 (5000)    Power 500    Fuel Use 10%    Signature 500    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000,000 Litres    Range 170.1 billion km   (833 days at full power)
Omicron R300/6 Shields (2000)   Total Fuel Cost  12,000 Litres per day

CIWS-1000 (100x16)    Range 1000 km     TS: 100000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Nuclear Arsenal (1000)    Missile Size 100    Rate of Fire 250
Missile Fire Control FC181121-R80 (1000)     Range 181,121.5m km    Resolution 80
'No More Aliens' Missile (12880)  Speed: 175,000 km/s   End: 17.1m    Range: 180.1m km   WH: 300    Size: 100    TH: 6416 / 3850 / 1925

Thermal Sensor TH50-3750 (1)     Sensitivity 3750     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3750m km
EM Detection Sensor EM50-3750 (1)     Sensitivity 3750     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3750m km

ECCM-5 (1000)         ECM 50

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

[Ehndras]

Wat?

Those sensors can't pick anything up, really.

[Ashery]

On auto/mines:

Realize that automines cost twice as much as their manned counterpart. This means, that for the same cost, mines will be as productive on a mineral with 0.5 accessibility as automines will be on a mineral with 1. No, this does *not* mean I recommend to never build automines, but automines should not be your default type of mine to produce. Even during the start of a game, when you're facing the impending mineral crashes that will occur, the decision to produce automines still relies on whether Mars has reasonable quantities of minerals with decent accessibility. Only after you know that it doesn't, should you start producing the automines that will help minimize the lost production time that may occur once Earth burns through its resources.

Ship based mining:

As Metalax mentioned, mining modules are actually the cheapest way to mine asteroids and comets. The problem mining modules have, of course, is that exact restriction. However, asteroids can be surprisingly lucrative if you take the time to survey'em. Just looked at my current game, and a quick check of asteroids shows one with a solid 288k duranium at 1. The other minerals are incredibly poor (Only 15k uridium at 0.9), but duranium is generally what an empire is shortest in, so it's still a pretty damn nice find. Also, this is before a team has had the chance to survey the asteroid.

As far as what one should use to transport the minerals, it depends on a few things, but if you're dealing with the inner asteroid belt in Sol, I recommend to simply send a cargo ship to pick up the minerals when there's a full load waiting. However, if you're experiencing a chronic shortage, mass drivers do provide more immediate access to minerals produced. This recommendation stems from the fact that mass drivers aren't exactly a quick build early on.

Also, you can use tugs to move the miners if you want to cut costs even more by getting rid of the engines entirely.

Oh, and one of their biggest advantages when compared to automines: They aren't produced by industry.

Last comment re: mining ships: You also double up on bonuses. The naval officer's mining bonus increases the effective number of mining modules and the civilian administrator's bonus applies to that modified value. Unfortunately, the same doesn't appear to hold true for terraforming modules.

A minor correction on cargo size that hasn't been corrected yet: Research centers (And GFTFs) take 100 holds to transport, not 25 as was previously mentioned.

[Micro102]

Wat?

Those sensors can't pick anything up, really.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it millions of km?

[RedKing]

In Aurora a 1000 tons for a combat ship is a bit light. Fighters have a maximum of 250 tons and gunboats have a maximum of 1000. Beyond that you could theoretically build ships as big as you want. In reality you start to get overflow errors.

I think anything under 1000 is a fighter, and under 2000 is a FAC. The 250/1000 numbers are the max size allowed by a single boat bay/hangar deck. You can stack two hangar decks and load a single 2000-ton FAC, for instance.

In practical usage, fighters needs to be under 350-400 tons (at least at the lower techs levels) or else the speed drops enough that you don't really gain anything from being a fighter. The chief advantages to fighters are:

1. Hard for enemy beams to target because of high speed.
2. Better chance of intercept beacuse of high speed.
3. Higher native targeting speed for beams (fighter-only FCs get a double bonus to their tracking speed).

Take away too much top speed and a fighter is just a tiny ship with poor armor.


As regards mining and asteroids, I start off mining those lacking Duranium and/or Sorium. Because CMCs may pop up on the larger ones that have Duranium/Sorium reserves. Ditto for automining planets and moons. I love CMCs. My treasury usually overfloweth anyways, so I have no problem with paying a dozen or more CMCs to do all the grunt work for me.

[forsaken1111]

Wat?

Those sensors can't pick anything up, really.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it millions of km?

yes, those passive sensors have a range of 3.75 billion kilometers

[Ehndras]

Wat?

Those sensors can't pick anything up, really.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it millions of km?

yes, those passive sensors have a range of 3.75 billion kilometers

Range, yes, but look at the sensitivity. It couldn't pick up a missile or small ship if it was rammed in the bridge at light speed, unless I'm utterly mistaken.

[Metalax]

In Aurora a 1000 tons for a combat ship is a bit light. Fighters have a maximum of 250 tons and gunboats have a maximum of 1000. Beyond that you could theoretically build ships as big as you want. In reality you start to get overflow errors.

I think anything under 1000 is a fighter, and under 2000 is a FAC. The 250/1000 numbers are the max size allowed by a single boat bay/hangar deck. You can stack two hangar decks and load a single 2000-ton FAC, for instance.

Fighters have to be 500 tons or less or they lose the fighter designation and can't be built in your fighter factories.

Another reason many limit their FAC's to 1000 tons is that ships of that size don't need a bridge component which frees up a hull space for more weapons. Also the limit of a single FAC engine is another reason to keep the size down. Of course you can also make larger FAC's using normal military engines and simply putting 2 per 1000 tons.

3. Higher native targeting speed for beams (fighter-only FCs get a double bonus to their tracking speed).

fighter only ones get 4x bonus to tracking speed.

Wat?

Those sensors can't pick anything up, really.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it millions of km?

yes, those passive sensors have a range of 3.75 billion kilometers

Range, yes, but look at the sensitivity. It couldn't pick up a missile or small ship if it was rammed in the bridge at light speed, unless I'm utterly mistaken.

Actually it should be able to pick up at a decent range. For passives the range to pick up a signal is
Sensor sensitivity x target thermal or electronic signature x 1000 km

So it will pick up a thermal 1 signature at 3750 x 1 x 1000 = 3.75 million km. As most small ships will have a significantly larger thermal emission than that it will pick them up at much longer range.

[RedKing]

Thanks for the correction. That's what I get for trying to do the numbers from memory instead of having the actual game in front of me.

[Flying Dice]

Wat?

Those sensors can't pick anything up, really.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it millions of km?

yes, those passive sensors have a range of 3.75 billion kilometers

Range, yes, but look at the sensitivity. It couldn't pick up a missile or small ship if it was rammed in the bridge at light speed, unless I'm utterly mistaken.

Actually, they aren't that bad, if I'm reading them correctly. Missile thermal sigs for size <10 is usually in the double digits, so those could probably pick up that A-wing right as it is about to crash through the massive, inexplicable window on the bridge. Of course, there is the larger problem of not having active sensors or EW. A few hundred quad laser turrets and a dozen or so FCs for them with maximum tech would give you a massive bubble of PD to help protect escorts, tenders, and the like. The missiles don't seem to be optimized correctly, either. If you're at max tech, you really don't need to put more that a very small fraction of a MSP into agility, engines, or warhead strength. Most of the tonnage should be going to fuel and sensors. Of course, with missiles that size, it probably already is, but they mass too much to get decent range. Hell, I've had mid-tech level missiles with an effective range of upwards of 1b km. Size 100 might be reasonable for dealing with planetary bombardment, Hiveships, and our wormhole friends, but it is serious overkill for everything else. Invest in a few thousand size-8 or so launchers and missiles to fit. That'll give you the chance to have actual striking range on your end-tech missiles. Not to mention those things must be a pain to produce. 

[Dutchling]

Wait, you are talking about that huge ship I tried to design? It isn't finished you know . I quit because of the overflow errors it generated. The engineering bays and insane amount failure rate caused the errors, IIRC.