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Author Topic: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games  (Read 2837941 times)

Dutchling

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6735 on: September 10, 2011, 09:06:22 am »

Oh, I needed to research it.
another question:
I have a Survey ship with AMM defense and senors. Will the game automatically stop when it (I) detects missiles?
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Paul

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6736 on: September 10, 2011, 10:35:01 am »

Oh, I needed to research it.
another question:
I have a Survey ship with AMM defense and senors. Will the game automatically stop when it (I) detects missiles?

If the active sensors are on it should. Or if you have thermal sensors. Both would need to be good enough to detect it at a range longer than its speed x 5 (5 seconds is the shortest interval to detect things). If your range is less than the missile speed x5 it's a gamble whether or not you'll see it before it hits you.

Like I said, if it was the last source in the galazy, or if I had tons of spare mining capacity and freighters, I'd go for it. But if I'm playing a normal start and have limited resources, I'm probably going to concentrate on developing sources that will produce the best possible results from the facilities and population I have available to me. Kind of like how building a dozen gas giant harvester bases is a good investment in the long run if you've got Sorium-heavy gas giants, but not when you're just barely scraping by and need every BP for concerns that are closer to the present, such as having enough materials to arm your first warships, build colony ships, etc.

It's not THAT bad. I don't intend to mine it until I run out the good accessibility locations, but especially if my team can up accessibility it might turn out to be a good spot. If you're at the point where most of your good accessibility locations only have 1 or 2 minerals it starts to look easier to just plop all your mines on one spot instead of having 50 here, 50 here, 50 here, 50 here, and 50 here just to get the minerals you want. It's especially handy for mining lesser used minerals to keep from running low on them while your other mines focus on locations with the minerals you really use a lot of like duranium.

Plus with 0.8 boronide, if I was looking specifically for that (say I'm building a bunch of terraformers or something) it would be a good spot to mine, and all the rest would just be a little extra bonus.
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Dutchling

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6737 on: September 10, 2011, 12:13:30 pm »

Ok that is good to know.

A Size 5 missile I just designed (I only had AMM missiles) could be detected from 322.6 k kilometers with my thermal sensors so unless they go 60 000 km/s I'll see them.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6738 on: September 10, 2011, 01:28:36 pm »

So you're using AMMs on your survey ships? Seems like that would oversize them a bit; if I ever bother arming them I just strap on a few CIWS and let them rely on speed to get out of bad spots. Let us know how it works out, if I ever decide to switch from "early warning system" SVs to "loaded for bear" SVs I might try that.


Also, does anyone else go with the missile design philosophy of have size-1 ASMs so ships can split magazine cap. between those and AMM and only need on type of launcher, and thus fill both roles? I like it because my design theory trends toward self-reliability rather than fleet support framework.
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Jacob/Lee

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6739 on: September 10, 2011, 01:39:37 pm »

I use larger missiles for AMM roles, self-reliability has the handicap of you'll be able to do less against both threats and if you try to create a self-reliant fleet destroyer you'll end up with this massive chunk of metal as a ship which gets destroyed quickly. I build my fleets with different ships performing different jobs and sending them in groups, dedicated AMM ships, dedicated ASM ships etc. etc.

Every ship does get their own PD and sensor suite, though.

Dutchling

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6740 on: September 10, 2011, 02:01:01 pm »

The AMM armed Survey vessel is just an experiment really :)
It was designed as Early Warning, Jump Scout, Geo Survey Vessel, Grav Survey Vessel and has AMM capabilities.
I don't really care about size, I care more about nice speeds. And with nice I don't mean high, but stuff like 7000, 5500, 6100 :P
You'll never see a ship with 3111 speed. The 3510 speed of this ship was just because a better speed would require a completely different design or 100.000.000 fuel.

Here is the design if you care:

Code: [Select]
Forsaken class Advanced Scout    4,700 tons     442 Crew     1066 BP      TCS 94  TH 330  EM 0
3510 km/s    JR 1-50     Armour 2-24     Shields 0-0     Sensors 56/44/2/2     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 10
Maint Life 4.48 Years     MSP 425    AFR 58%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 34    5YR 515    Max Repair 150 MSP
Magazine 226   

J4800(1-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 4800 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 1
Military Internal Confinement Fusion Drive E8.4 P110 (3)    Power 110    Fuel Use 84%    Signature 110    Armour 0    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 560,000 Litres    Range 255.3 billion km   (841 days at full power)

00:10 HS1 MS1 Launcher (10)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC9-R1 (2)     Range 9.2m km    Resolution 1
Blight Mk I AMM (226)  Speed: 40,000 km/s   End: 0.4m    Range: 1m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 386 / 232 / 116

Active Search Sensor MR6-R1 (1)     GPS 56     Range 6.2m km    Resolution 1
Military Thermal Sensor TH4-56 (1)     Sensitivity 56     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  56m km
Military EM Detection Sensor EM4-44 (1)     Sensitivity 44     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  44m km
Improved Gravitational Sensors (1)   2 Survey Points Per Hour
Improved Geological Sensors (1)   2 Survey Points Per Hour

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

I'm thinking of maker a newer design with a higher Maint. Life, as 4 1/2 years is a bit too short for a real geo/grav/jump survey through the galaxy
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Dutchling

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6741 on: September 10, 2011, 02:04:19 pm »

Wut. I just send my post and I got a 504 error gate message or something.
Post wasn't there so I made a new one. Just as I post this one, the other one shows up >.>
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 02:06:40 pm by Dutchling »
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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6742 on: September 10, 2011, 02:16:54 pm »

For me it is because up until around the start of antimatter level power tech I don't use fleet organization, just squadrons of ships of the same class, and I've found that making them all self-reliable helps immensely because even if half of them die the other half are still operating at normal efficiency. This is the sort of thing that lets me take on 10+ ships with 4 destroyers or cruisers and get a good rate of return on my investment; none of my ships are individually crucial to the survival of the squadron, so my squadrons can't be crippled by bad luck, such as having the entire enemy fleet focus fire on my AMM ships, or my sensor platform, etc.

What I do use, though, is support role vessels in seperate task groups. E.g. I have a squadron of six missile destroyers slugging it out with an enemy fleet, and then I have a sensor platform with massive Vmax and huge sensor ranges spotting for them, to prevent enemies from escaping out of their sensor range, and then a few long range support vessels sniping with heavier missiles, and a squadron of fast tin cans with heavy beam armament waiting to rush in once enemy fire is focused on the main squadron. All of the ships have their own sensor suites and PD arrays, none are essential to the operation of the whole, but still complement each other.

tl;dr I like my ships to be able to fight effectively on their own, because we all know that there are times where most of a fleet group gets wiped, and I would rather be able to take a few more enemies with the survivors than have them die while running to a JP because they didn't have PD or longrange sensors, or some other thing that was supposed to be done by a specialized vessel. To quote Heinlein via Lazarus Long:
 "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

 ;D
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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6743 on: September 10, 2011, 02:21:21 pm »

Wut. I just send my post and I got a 504 error gate message or something.
Post wasn't there so I made a new one. Just as I post this one, the other one shows up >.>

Same thing just happened to me.  ???
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SirAaronIII

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6744 on: September 11, 2011, 12:27:13 am »

Okay, I started a research project and assigned a dude to it. Now that I've reached the completion date, what should happen? Does he just tell me he finished? Do I have to press a specific button to finish it?
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Jacob/Lee

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6745 on: September 11, 2011, 12:28:30 am »

Okay, I started a research project and assigned a dude to it. Now that I've reached the completion date, what should happen? Does he just tell me he finished? Do I have to press a specific button to finish it?
When you hit that date you get an event in the event log telling you it finished. No manual completion required.

SirAaronIII

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6746 on: September 11, 2011, 12:30:43 am »

Huh, that's weird. I passed the date without a message, and it seems that every time I pass the time by a day then the scientist delays the completion date. For example, it was supposed to finish on January 26th, and then I fast-forwarded a few days and now the completion date is January 29th. For reference, it is actually January 29th, so I don't know what's up there.
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MarcAFK

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6747 on: September 11, 2011, 12:37:19 am »

So i've been messing around with spacemaster mode just to get the hang of combat, with tier 2 equipment crammed into a massively overarmoured and engined ship (weighs in at 2million tons from engines, but still has about the same armourment as i would have put into a 15,000 ton destroyer) Yes i should have just instanted a few levels of engine tech, but i was bored and cramming 7,000 engines into the thing seemed like a good idea at the time. Anyway i finally managed to Destroy 2 of these Proxima centauri Aliens with lots of Warhead 9 missiles (most missed because the missiles were only 1.5 times the target's speed) and my CIWS seems to be at least 10% effective against his missiles so things aren't looking so bad
However i'm still having 2 major problems, 1: how on earth do get point defence working? I've used PD missiles as anti ship weapons, my PD lasers work well enough against his ships, but something else is missing, should his missiles show up on my targets when ui select my Missile control sensor? Should i try resolution below 1? Is there any way to speed combat up? The above battle required 4 hours to destroy 2 ships because as soon as his ships came into sensor range ticks slowed down to 5 seconds, which means it takes forever to cover the 80 million kilometers untill they get into range.
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They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.

MarcAFK

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6748 on: September 11, 2011, 12:38:46 am »

Huh, that's weird. I passed the date without a message, and it seems that every time I pass the time by a day then the scientist delays the completion date. For example, it was supposed to finish on January 26th, and then I fast-forwarded a few days and now the completion date is January 29th. For reference, it is actually January 29th, so I don't know what's up there.
The games production cycles are in 5 day increments, which i think means that estimates for completion of ships/research can be off by a few days Or at least i have found that happening frequently.

Wut. I just send my post and I got a 504 error gate message or something.
Post wasn't there so I made a new one. Just as I post this one, the other one shows up >.>

Same thing just happened to me.  ???
Same thing.... No Actually i just forgot to edit my old post :s
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 12:40:44 am by MarcAFK »
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They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.

Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6749 on: September 11, 2011, 03:11:40 am »

You need an active sensor set to Resolution 1, which will display max detection ranges both for 50 ton ships, and for various missile sizes. After that, you need to design and research some sort of non-missile weapon, such as lasers or gauss cannon. For PD, the best choice is 10cm, as you usually will just need to hit missiles to kill them. Once you have the weapon, design and research a turret (preferably quad) that houses them. You'll need to have researched a decent amount of tracking speed tech, or your turrets won't traverse quickly enough to track missiles, and you need to have turret-mounted PD because hull-mounted weapons can only traverse as quickly as the ship. For energy weapons, you should also research some of the focus tech to increase range.

Once you have the active sensor and turret designed and researched, design a Beam Fire Control system with similar range to your chosen weapon. For PD, you'll want to use the scrolldown window to select 4x traverse speed. Once you have that, design a reactor. You'll see a power requirement in the Class Design screen in the section for any energy/kinetic weapons you've added in the format of #/#. The first is the total amount of power needed to fire that weapon once, the second is the amount of power required per 5sec interval. Your total reactor output needs to be equal to or greater than the total require power per 5sec for all energy/kinetic weapons on the ship.

When you install your PD system, you should have the following:
-Power reactors providing enough power for all energy/kinetic weapons.
-Weapon turrets.
-Beam fire control.
-Active sensors with resolution 1.

You should also consider adding ECM to your ship to reduce enemy missile accuracy.

Once your ship is build, use the combat or individual ship windows to assign turrets to the fire control, and then set them to the PD mode you want, which includes maximum engagement range. You'll need to activate your sensors to detect enemy missiles.


Alternately, for AMMs, build everything the way you would for ASMs, but make a Size 1 missile with a total warhead strength of at least 1 (the bolded number in the right column, not the user input number. This will depend on your warhead tech.) For the other 3 aspects of the design, work on maximizing the to-hit % for 10km/s speeds. You shouldn't need more than 0.1 for fuel, even at low engine efficiency techs.

As before, design an active sensor with resolution 1. Then design a missile fire control with resolution one. Note that the fire control will be much smaller for the same effective range. Make sure that the ranges for these are equal or slightly greater than the range for your AMM.

The final build for AMM defence should include:
-Size-1 launchers (substantial numbers, especially for dedicated AM ships).
-Magazine(s), with substantial capacity, as you will run through AMMs VERY fast.
-Active sensor resolution 1.
-Fire control resolution 1.
-As before, strongly consider using ECM.

Once your ship is built, again, go to either the combat or individual ships window and assign launchers to your AMM fire control. Then dictate the maximum engagement range (should be less than or equal to your AMM max range). Set the number of AMMs you want your fire control to fire at each enemy missile. Note that these can be changed at any time to, say, conserve ammunition or eliminate serious threats.
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Aurora on small monitors:
1. Game Parameters -> Reduced Height Windows.
2. Lock taskbar to the right side of your desktop.
3. Run Resize Enable
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