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Author Topic: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games  (Read 2838096 times)

Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6555 on: August 31, 2011, 09:22:28 pm »

Yep, they search for targets within their sensor range when their initial target gets blown up. As long as they can detect a contact they'll go after it. If you're firing missiles at your maximum range they may not have fuel left to reach it though.

Not sure if they can attack friendly ships or not, never had a ship near one to find out.
The "hostile" setting for military stance with other races claims missiles will target ships part of that race so I assume missiles will just idle if there is no enemy ships but friendlies around.

Yeah, if they don't get any hostile contacts within their endurance time they'll self-destruct.

Although TBH it'd be a nice touch if they would just drift there and could be recovered and reused.
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Jacob/Lee

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6556 on: August 31, 2011, 10:05:53 pm »

Yeah, it would be a nice feature if a missile just killed its engines until an enemy came in range when it couldn't find a target so you could pick it up and re-use it.

Paul

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6557 on: August 31, 2011, 10:24:38 pm »

Eh, fire and its gone is better imo. Makes you have to choose between limiting your shots on an unknown enemy or going all out to make sure its dead.

It's a tactical choice. Do I fire all of my missiles at that big ship coming at me, or should I fire a quarter and see how that does? If I fire all I might see 10 of them kill it and the rest explode uselessly, if I fire a quarter I might see all of them get shot down then find myself short of ammo for a decisive strike.

If you could recover the excess you'd just always fire everything you have then pick up the leftovers.
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Sirus

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6558 on: August 31, 2011, 10:32:49 pm »

Eh, fire and its gone is better imo. Makes you have to choose between limiting your shots on an unknown enemy or going all out to make sure its dead.

It's a tactical choice. Do I fire all of my missiles at that big ship coming at me, or should I fire a quarter and see how that does? If I fire all I might see 10 of them kill it and the rest explode uselessly, if I fire a quarter I might see all of them get shot down then find myself short of ammo for a decisive strike.

If you could recover the excess you'd just always fire everything you have then pick up the leftovers.
100% agree. Remember, missiles may be tactically superior (longest range and highest damage potential) but strategically inferior (must build them and reload your ships somehow). Making missiles reusable would just make them even more OP than they already are.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6559 on: August 31, 2011, 10:49:20 pm »

Eh, fire and its gone is better imo. Makes you have to choose between limiting your shots on an unknown enemy or going all out to make sure its dead.

It's a tactical choice. Do I fire all of my missiles at that big ship coming at me, or should I fire a quarter and see how that does? If I fire all I might see 10 of them kill it and the rest explode uselessly, if I fire a quarter I might see all of them get shot down then find myself short of ammo for a decisive strike.

If you could recover the excess you'd just always fire everything you have then pick up the leftovers.
100% agree. Remember, missiles may be tactically superior (longest range and highest damage potential) but strategically inferior (must build them and reload your ships somehow). Making missiles reusable would just make them even more OP than they already are.

See, I was thinking more along the lines of being able to pick up the couple that are always left over from my battles, and then refueling them from my ships' tanks. It isn't as if it changes game balance, as you have to take time and spend fuel to recover them, so resource-wise it would almost always be more efficient to top off from colliers rather than waste time chasing down a few stray missiles. The situations I had in mind were ones where a detachment is operating far from friendly territory and doesn't have the option of rearming from colliers or colonies, in which case every missile would count and picking up strays is a logical decision. With longer range missiles this would also mean that more than a handful of missiles could seriously deplete your fuel bunkers, turning it into a much more important tactical decision.
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thobal

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6560 on: August 31, 2011, 11:02:17 pm »

Do objects really drift around?
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Paul

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6561 on: August 31, 2011, 11:39:10 pm »

See, I was thinking more along the lines of being able to pick up the couple that are always left over from my battles, and then refueling them from my ships' tanks. It isn't as if it changes game balance, as you have to take time and spend fuel to recover them, so resource-wise it would almost always be more efficient to top off from colliers rather than waste time chasing down a few stray missiles. The situations I had in mind were ones where a detachment is operating far from friendly territory and doesn't have the option of rearming from colliers or colonies, in which case every missile would count and picking up strays is a logical decision. With longer range missiles this would also mean that more than a handful of missiles could seriously deplete your fuel bunkers, turning it into a much more important tactical decision.

Heh, missile fuel is so little compared to ships it wouldn't be a tactical decision at all. My big size 10 missile takes 2000 fuel. The size 425 fighter that carries 4 of them has 35,000 fuel. The carrier that carries 40 of those ships has 2,650,000 fuel. Thats a total of 4,050,000 fuel on that carrier and its fighters. Even if I fired all 160 missiles the fighter group carries and then ran out and recovered all 160 of them I'd only be out 320,000 fuel, less than 10% of what I carry and probably less than it takes to fly out to meet the enemy in the fighters. If I could recover missiles like you say, I would ALWAYS fire my entire volley at enemies - always, every single time. Even if I have to recover half of them every time the 160,000 fuel cost is so little it is miniscule in comparison to firing a partial amount of missiles and seeing all of them shot down. I can store enough fuel for 25 of them in 1 HS, storing 25 of them takes about 15 HS.

It's a much richer tactical game if missiles are single use. Decisions with how many missiles to fire at targets could make or break a war. You might lose a battle because you tried to be cheap with missiles, or you may lose the war because you used all your missiles up front firing too many in the initial battles.

It also makes knowledge of your enemy more important. If you know that ship X has minimal point defense and died the last time after only 4 missile impacts, you know you don't need to fire too many for a kill. On the other hand ship Y might have powerful anti missile capability and last time managed to shoot down 100 missiles before even reaching it. That one you would want to fire at least 120 or more to make sure you get enough past the AMMs to destroy it without costing you a second expensive try at overcoming them.
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MarcAFK

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6562 on: September 01, 2011, 12:40:07 am »

It kinda makes sence to make your missiles self destruct when they run out of range since you don't want bloody unexploded atomic warheads floating around your shipping lanes, also you wouldn't want enemies salvaging them for your tech...
Then again maybe a few should always get lost and if you're unlucky show up at the worst time, or you might get lucky and find an old precursor missile floating around to salvage..

Edit:
The Aurora wiki is a freaking mess, I must have wasted 2 hours looking for any reference to Colonising or moving stuff with freighters, eventually i just decided to poke around the interface systematically untill i eventually found what i needed on the F12 task groups page....
To sum up, the Wiki and the tutorials are missing some rather important information that a dense person like me might find useful, I'm sure the forum has that information but i couldn't find it either, maybe i could register to the forum and make some pages on the wiki myself...

Edit 2: So i'm playing my first game, i finally got a geoship out there and *sigh* everything in sol looks rather barren,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
*facepalm* After giving orders to survey all the moons of my gas giants i give an order to also check comet 1 which is conveniently near neptune, i notice i have accidentally given the order to "move to comet 1" ok i think, i'll select it and click delete...... Oh wait that button says "delete all" 
FUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Edit 3 : I seem to have broken my freighter, i had it shuttling infrastructure to mars, but when i set it to move automines to venus for that precious sorium it's just sitting at earth doing nothing, in the meantime My civvies got their act together and started doing it by themself. However i was experementing with refitting at my shipyard, perhaps my freighter is stuck because i had selected it as a target for refitting, despite not having anything i could refit it to?
"Praise the miners! We have struck : Carbomite 1537, Sorium 635, Corundium 924 on Pasiphae" !   X(
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 09:27:07 am by MarcAFK »
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They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.

catoblepas

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6563 on: September 01, 2011, 01:48:36 am »

How do you transfer buildings and population from one group on a planet to another? I tried using 'supply and demand' to transfer some research buildings to a conquered population to the conquered population, but nothing happens. Is there any way to merge the conquered population with the conquerors? What about technology? Any input would be appreciated.
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Jacob/Lee

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6564 on: September 01, 2011, 08:01:37 am »

Do objects really drift around?
Objects will float, they don't actually move though. They just sit in space until something happens to them.

Paul

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6565 on: September 01, 2011, 08:26:19 am »

Game already calculates orbits of planets, and asteroids if you turn that on. If it calculated the drift of every wreck and misfired missile you would be sitting there waiting ages between 5 day turns :D
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forsaken1111

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6566 on: September 01, 2011, 08:34:53 am »

You guys know that you can make mines using buoys right? No need to have missiles drift and retarget. Just drop a ton of mine buoys on your warp points.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6567 on: September 01, 2011, 08:36:48 am »

It kinda makes sence to make your missiles self destruct when they run out of range since you don't want bloody unexploded atomic warheads floating around your shipping lanes, also you wouldn't want enemies salvaging them for your tech...
Then again maybe a few should always get lost and if you're unlucky show up at the worst time, or you might get lucky and find an old precursor missile floating around to salvage..

Edit:
The Aurora wiki is a freaking mess, I must have wasted 2 hours looking for any reference to Colonising or moving stuff with freighters, eventually i just decided to poke around the interface systematically untill i eventually found what i needed on the F12 task groups page....
To sum up, the Wiki and the tutorials are missing some rather important information that a dense person like me might find useful, I'm sure the forum has that information but i couldn't find it either, maybe i could register to the forum and make some pages on the wiki myself...

Edit 2: So i'm playing my first game, i finally got a geoship out there and *sigh* everything in sol looks rather barren,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
*facepalm* After giving orders to survey all the moons of my gas giants i give an order to also check comet 1 which is conveniently near neptune, i notice i have accidentally given the order to "move to comet 1" ok i think, i'll select it and click delete...... Oh wait that button says "delete all" 
FUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Edit 3 : I seem to have broken my freighter, i had it shuttling infrastructure to mars, but when i set it to move automines to venus for that precious sorium it's just sitting at earth doing nothing, in the meantime My civvies got their act together and started doing it by themself. However i was experementing with refitting at my shipyard, perhaps my freighter is stuck because i had selected it as a target for refitting, despite not having anything i could refit it to?
"Praise the miners! We have struck : Carbomite 1537, Sorium 635, Corundium 924 on Pasiphae" !   X(

See, what I was thinking is, unexploded ordinance is a staple of conventional warfare, with tens of thousands of mine, dud shells, etc. all over the place from the past two dozen wars. Why would starfaring capability change that?


As for the freighters, check their cargo holds. They almost certainly have a full load of infrastructure. Repeat orders tend to screw up and end with a full load rather than empty holds, in my experience.
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2. Lock taskbar to the right side of your desktop.
3. Run Resize Enable

Paul

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6568 on: September 01, 2011, 08:57:57 am »

The bug with removing ships from TGs ruins my fun with tractor beams.

My explorer fleet group of

Spoiler: An engine section (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: A main section (click to show/hide)


Without bugs, it's a fun little group to play with. I move them into a system, detach the 4 grav survey, add order to survey, hit divide tg. Same with Geo if there are a bunch of planets. About a month or so later the system is surveyed and I just have the ships land on their assigned mothership and off we go to the next system. It's a little micromanagery but I kinda like watching them swarm over the system scanning it anyway, and the time it takes to give them orders isn't that long. I over designed it for fuel, it has so much I used them for 4 years exploring tons of systems and only lost like 5% because the small ships use so little in their surveying while the main one just waits for them. And the commercial engines don't have thermal reduction, so its way too big of a thermal signature. The passives are too small too (I accidentally included my commercial ones instead of my larger military ones), but generally it's a good group.

The problem is...

Remove from task group. Over and over and over. Every single time the main section takes a hit or even suffers a maintenance failure it thinks it has taken engine damage and separates from the task group, forcing me to recombine it with the engine section. Maybe if I build a new version with an engine on the main section it will stop disconnecting every 5 minutes. I sure hope so...
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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #6569 on: September 01, 2011, 08:58:49 am »

i found the problem, i forgot to Change "maximum amount to load" from 0 *facepalm*
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They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.
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