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[Jacob/Lee]

666 chance to hit.

That ship was designed by SATAN!

[Felius]

Use a drone for the first stage. They get much better fuel efficiency. This way you can fit more missiles and/or more range.

Also, reduce fuel range for the submunissions and give them some sensors of their own. Also increase the separation range if the submunission sensors can handle it.

Remember, you also have to consider the enemy PD, so a bigger separation range means less chance of being destroyed before it can hit.

[Flying Dice]

Honestly, that wasn't even a serious design; I don't have any ships designed to use it.


In other news, emulating David Weber is apparently the phase I'm in. There is no way I can possibly build these, and there is no real need for them. Designed just because.

And yes, that active sensor has an effective detection range of 3.32 billion kilometers against 1000+ ton vessels.

Code: [Select]

Rommel class Jump Point Defence Base    105,150 tons     5018 Crew     28012.6603 BP      TCS 2103  TH 2550  EM 300
1616 km/s     Armour 20-198     Shields 10-300     Sensors 1200/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 6     PPV 260
Maint Life 0.09 Years     MSP 3999    AFR 14742%    IFR 204.8%    1YR 45890    5YR 688344    Max Repair 6750 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 10000 tons     Magazine 21222   

Solid Core Anti-matter Drive E1 (17)    Power 200    Fuel Use 10%    Signature 150    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 2,000,000 Litres    Range 342.2 billion km   (2450 days at full power)
Delta R300/2.5 Shields (4)   Total Fuel Cost  10 Litres per day

Size 16 Missile Launcher (25% Reduction) (40)    Missile Size 16    Rate of Fire 5335
Size 1 Missile Launcher (100)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Missile Fire Control FC111-R1 (4)     Range 111.4m km    Resolution 1
Missile Fire Control FC498-R20 (4)     Range 498.1m km    Resolution 20
Viper-1 (6000)  Speed: 64,000 km/s   End: 28.1m    Range: 108m km   WH: 2    Size: 1    TH: 1706 / 1024 / 512
Athena-16 (639)  Speed: 20,000 km/s   End: 750m    Range: 900m km   WH: 72    Size: 16    TH: 200 / 120 / 60
Hermes-1 (5000)  Speed: 40,000 km/s   End: 187.5m    Range: 450m km   WH: 6    Size: 1    TH: 666 / 400 / 200

SLRAS MR3320-R20 (1)     GPS 135000     Range 3,320.6m km    Resolution 20
STS TH50-1200 (1)     Sensitivity 1200     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  1200m km

ECM 10

Strike Group
32x Aggressor Fighter   Speed: 19672 km/s    Size: 6.1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


[BurnedToast]

I read somewhere that meson cannons had short range and that was the main balancing factor... but I look at this chart here: http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Beam_Weapon_Range

and it seems like even mid-tech they hit the max range for fire control systems.

That seems like it renders lasers (and railguns) completely redundant. Sure mesons only do 1 damage, but it's pure internal damage ignoring both armor AND shields.

Surely I'm missing something?

I know missiles (can) have super long range, but you can't really compare the two, they are totally different. Mesons vs all other beam weapons, why would you not pick mesons?

[Flying Dice]

I think a big part of it is that they're pretty much useless for PD, when decent missiles can cover their effective range in less time than it takes for them to fire and/or recharge. Basically mesons are for the fast movers that can outrun missiles and get in close enough to use beams, because if you can get into range for lasers, you can get into range for mesons, and if you can't get in laser range, there is no point to trying to get to meson range.

So basically everything that isn't a fighter or FAC shouldn't be using mesons for anything, and those shouldn't be using any other type of beam/kinetic weapon.

[Tarran]

Because, if my quick looks at cost for research, you should always be able to outrange a Meson with a laser if using the exact same research points.

Range is important depending on the speed of your ship and the enemy's. If you're slower, you MUST have a longer range weapon or you will die without doing any damage. If you're faster, you can afford the shorter range.

I think it does make Particle Beams kinda worthless in their larger sizes, but for small Particle Beams, they've got the advantage, as their size does not determine their range.

Plasma Carronades are still more useful in very close range for just the raw damage they do. Even if they can't phase through armor, they can do A LOT OF FREAKING DAMAGE. Which will put holes in a lot of armor if you ever come back. Still, I'll admit, they've got a shorter range, so Mesons may work better.

Railguns... ehh, definitely outclassed.

[BurnedToast]

yeah but research costs only matter for early game.

mid game or later, both systems are range limited by fire control's max range, not the weapon system's max range. Who cares if your lasers can fire 5,000,000 km and his mesons can only fire 2,500,000 km when fire control caps you both to 1,400,000 km?

(unless I'm missing something and there's a way to boost fire control past the "max")

....heck, unless I'm missing something even plasma carronades are range limited by fire control at high tech levels.

[Tarran]

yeah but research costs only matter for early game.

Not so. When fighting an enemy, research points not spent somewhere can be spent somewhere else.

[Cerej]

At maximum focusing tech, you're using a 30cm meson battery (450 tons of space) to do 1 point of armor piercing damage at maximum range, with a power consumption of 25.
A similar sized laser hits for 24 damage out to 120k km (but costs nearly 18 times as many minerals).  And then loses half it's damage every additional 120k km until it plinks for 1 point of damage at max range.

Mesons don't have to spend a lot of minerals to reach long ranges, but they're heavy.  They're also mineral inefficient for raw damage, unless they can keep the range open.

EDIT:  I may have derped.  I think mesons ignore shields.  It's high power microwaves that shields protect against.

[Sheb]

Meson do go through shields.

[BurnedToast]

yeah but research costs only matter for early game.

Not so. When fighting an enemy, research points not spent somewhere can be spent somewhere else.

You missed the point. After a certain tech level, it does not matter that your lasers have double the range of my meson cannons - your fire control can't shoot further then 1,400,000 km and neither can mine so it's impossible to outrange me with any beam weapon. Once we get to that point, your laser loses it's advantages, and it's only midway down the tech line that you get there.

Cerej - are mesons shield piercing or not? if shields stop them, then they seem reasonably balanced and that's what I'm missing (it will take a lot of 1 damage hits to burn through the shields) but I've read they are both armor AND shield piercing on the wiki and the forum.

If they ARE shield piercing then your example seems to show to me just how powerful they are. Assuming roughly equal drive tech (to stay at range) the lasers are going to sit there plinking away with 1 damage (they might not even be able to burn through the shields at all) meanwhile the mesons are doing constant internal damage of which each hit is potentially catastrophic if it blows an engine, magazine, or power core.

Edit: seems they are shield piercing, so yeah.

[Cerej]

Hmm.  I'm unable to find any solid evidence if armoring your engines works to protect them from mesons or not.  I suppose it doesn't matter, since fire controls are locked at 1 hit to kill anyway.  I suppose meson superiority is just another of those quirks of Aurora, then.

[Tarran]

yeah but research costs only matter for early game.

Not so. When fighting an enemy, research points not spent somewhere can be spent somewhere else.

You missed the point. After a certain tech level, it does not matter that your lasers have double the range of my meson cannons - your fire control can't shoot further then 1,400,000 km and neither can mine so it's impossible to outrange me with any beam weapon. Once we get to that point, your laser loses it's advantages, and it's only midway down the tech line that you get there.

Oh, you attached it to the sentence below.

Still, I'll have reached that limit earlier. Once I have, I'll be able to allocate stuff elsewhere before you do.

Thus, my point still stands.

[Bremen]

You're not incorrect, but I don't think it's as clear cut as you think. While yes, at mid-tech or higher you can range cap mesons, they're not necessarily the kind of energy weapons (and yes, they are blocked by internal armor). There are also a number of advantages to exceeding beam fire control range:

You can use smaller size weapons (giving you secondary point defense armament, or point defense weapons that double as anti-ship)
Using larger weapons with a lower range tech is much cheaper
The damage dissipates much slower on long range weapons
PDCs can have fire control range 50% longer, though this isn't very useful for lasers unless you build PDCs on airless planets
You can skip researching longer range weapons and spend the RP on longer range fire controls, instead
You can refit a ship with new fire controls to make use of the range, without having to completely redo its weapons.

So, yeah, if you really want to use mesons its not necessarily true that you'll be outranged (or rather, past a certain tech range is dictated by whoever has the best fire controls); that doesn't necessarily mean they make the best weapons, though.

[LuckyNinja]

I'm sure this question has already been asked and answered, but I don't fancy trawling through 300+ pages.

I'm using the tutorial setup (new to the game obviously) and I can't actually build installations or anything on any planet other than earth. The reason is the lack of construction facilities, but I can't build any because I don't have any construction points! So, how do I get, say, Mars, with a pop of 12mil, to build stuff?


Edit: It wouldn't have anything to do with putting out a civillian contract demanding con facilities would it?