Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dutchling]

Yesterday I designed my first (missile firing) cruiser and it turned out both its anti-ship and anti-missile capabilities were pretty bad versus an NPR I created on Titan so I decided to make both an escort cruiser and a missile cruiser. Any comments on these monstrosities boats are welcom.

Spoiler: old versions (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Amsterdam class Missile Cruiser    16,000 tons     1446 Crew     2070.2 BP      TCS 320  TH 640  EM 0
2000 km/s     Armour 4-56     Shields 0-0     Sensors 30/30/0/0     Damage Control Rating 15     PPV 60
Annual Failure Rate: 136%    IFR: 1.9%    Maint Capacity 1213 MSP    Max Repair 84 MSP    Est Time: 4.12 Years
Magazine 1590   

Military P40 Nuclear Pulse Engine (16)    Power 40    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 600,000 Litres    Range 67.5 billion km   (390 days at full power)

S5 Medium Missile Launcher (12)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 40
Missile Fire Control FC50-R100 (1)     Range 50.4m km    Resolution 100
Missile Fire Control FC31-R40 (1)     Range 31.9m km    Resolution 40
Wrath S5-A (318)  Speed: 20,000 km/s   End: 45m    Range: 54m km   WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 66 / 40 / 20

Active Search Sensor MR50-R100 (1)     GPS 8400     Range 50.4m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR31-R40 (1)     GPS 3360     Range 31.9m km    Resolution 40
Thermal Sensor TH5-30 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  30m km
EM Detection Sensor EM5-30 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  30m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]

Rotterdam class Escort Cruiser    16,000 tons     1436 Crew     2046.2 BP      TCS 320  TH 640  EM 0
2000 km/s     Armour 4-56     Shields 0-0     Sensors 30/30/0/0     Damage Control Rating 13     PPV 60
Annual Failure Rate: 157%    IFR: 2.2%    Maint Capacity 1039 MSP    Max Repair 168 MSP    Est Time: 2.31 Years
Magazine 1590   

Military P40 Nuclear Pulse Engine (16)    Power 40    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 600,000 Litres    Range 67.5 billion km   (390 days at full power)

S1 Small Missile Launcher (60)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC10-R1 (2)     Range 10.1m km    Resolution 1
Prayer R1.1-A (1590)  Speed: 29,800 km/s   End: 0.6m    Range: 1.1m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 99 / 59 / 29

Active Search Sensor MR10-R1 (1)     GPS 168     Range 10.1m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH5-30 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  30m km
EM Detection Sensor EM5-30 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  30m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

I'm going to test these versus an NPR now and see how it goes.

[Felius]

It certainly has lots of missile launchers. Why are you keeping a Res 40 sensor and fire control at the missile cruiser? It does not really serve at any purpose, as you're unlikely to find enemies this size, and it reduces the overall effiency. I'd recommend you strike them both out to get more Res 60-100 fire controls, so you can better divide your salvos.

More o for the Escort. You have 30 launchers slaved to each fire control. Each fire control can only fire at a given target once every 5 seconds. It's incredibly overkill. As your rate of fire is once every 10 seconds for each launcher, try to have 8 launchers slaved to each fire control, so they can fire once 4 missiles at a given target every 4 seconds (max automatic pd fire is 4 anti-missiles missiles per incoming missile). Also, since you're already doing separate ships, you might put your sensor array on a specialist ship, as the concentrated sensors are more efficient than spread across the fleet, as you can get bigger sensors in a single ship, and they don't stack. Just keep some token active sensors of the fire control range at both the missile and escort cruisers, just so you are not totally blind in case your sensor ship is destroyed. Also, make them have heavier armor. Enemies tend to target the most visible ship, in which case, would be the sensor ship.

[Dutchling]

The R40 sensors sounded like a good idea if the enemy has smaller ships, although you're probably right and I'll scrap it or move it to a dedicated sensor ship once I make one.
The Escort Cruisers were initially designed with only one fire control as the max pdc fire is 5 (not 4, might have changed since you last played?) so each ship can fire at a salvo of 12 missiles. That might be a but overkill but I have pretty low tech, as I did a semi-conventional start (a TN start without any RP).
I haven't tested the escort cruisers though, as the NPR I just spawned didn't seem to have any anti-ship missiles.
And about the sensor ship, I was thinking of making one, but it seemed to be kinda risky to put all your sensors on one sensor ship. I think I'll remove the passive sensors (and the R40 ones) from the cruisers and make a sensor ship with stronger passives, and perhaps a very strong active search sensor. Put the new designs here once they are ready.

EDIT: Ok, here are some new designs. I've moved the passive and R40 sensors to a dedicated sensor ship. Space gained by this was used for more launchers/fuel/fire controls.

Code: [Select]

Amsterdam class Missile Cruiser    16,000 tons     1497 Crew     2026.2 BP      TCS 320  TH 640  EM 0
2000 km/s     Armour 4-56     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 16     PPV 70
Annual Failure Rate: 128%    IFR: 1.8%    Maint Capacity 1266 MSP    Max Repair 84 MSP    Est Time: 4.35 Years
Magazine 1600   

Military P40 Nuclear Pulse Engine (16)    Power 40    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 700,000 Litres    Range 78.8 billion km   (455 days at full power)

S5 Medium Missile Launcher (14)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 40
Missile Fire Control FC50-R100 (2)     Range 50.4m km    Resolution 100
Wrath S5-A (318)  Speed: 20,000 km/s   End: 45m    Range: 54m km   WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 66 / 40 / 20

Active Search Sensor MR50-R100 (1)     GPS 8400     Range 50.4m km    Resolution 100

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]

Rotterdam class Escort Cruiser    16,000 tons     1432 Crew     2230.2 BP      TCS 320  TH 640  EM 0
2000 km/s     Armour 4-56     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 13     PPV 60
Annual Failure Rate: 157%    IFR: 2.2%    Maint Capacity 1133 MSP    Max Repair 168 MSP    Est Time: 2.43 Years
Magazine 1590   

Military P40 Nuclear Pulse Engine (16)    Power 40    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 700,000 Litres    Range 78.8 billion km   (455 days at full power)

S1 Small Missile Launcher (60)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC10-R1 (6)     Range 10.1m km    Resolution 1
Prayer R1.1-A (1590)  Speed: 29,800 km/s   End: 0.6m    Range: 1.1m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 99 / 59 / 29

Active Search Sensor MR10-R1 (1)     GPS 168     Range 10.1m km    Resolution 1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


Code: [Select]

Johan de Witt class Sensor Ship    5,600 tons     431 Crew     939.4 BP      TCS 112  TH 280  EM 0
2500 km/s     Armour 5-28     Shields 0-0     Sensors 60/60/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 50%    IFR: 0.7%    Maint Capacity 1524 MSP    Max Repair 280 MSP    Est Time: 4.17 Years

Military P40 Nuclear Pulse Engine (7)    Power 40    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 350,000 Litres    Range 112.5 billion km   (520 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR31-R40 (1)     GPS 3360     Range 31.9m km    Resolution 40
Active Search Sensor MR168-R100 (1)     GPS 28000     Range 168.0m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH10-60 (1)     Sensitivity 60     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  60m km
EM Detection Sensor EM10-60 (1)     Sensitivity 60     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  60m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


[Felius]

As a general recommendation, on the sensor ship, make just one low resolution active sensors, and compensate it with size. A small res sensor can see bigger ships at the same distance, and if the enemy uses cloak it should help too. (Although I'm unsure if the NPRs ever uses cloaking).

In a more personal note, I'd put some CIWS in the ships, if you have them, and increase the armor across the board (although I'm the guy who made armor 20 missile cruisers, which is very over the top), specially on the sensor ship for both defenses. Remember that if it falls, you're near blind, so you want to protect it.

About the max auto PD I'm probably wrong about the number, but the point still stands, although as you have already fixed it in the new design, it's a moot point.

On a side note, you should put some ECCM on the missile cruiser, or increase the range of the fire control. If the enemy ships have ECM it'll decrease the effective range of your fire control. And precursor combat ships pretty much always have ECM.

[Dutchling]

I don't have any ECM or point defense because I don't have the tech yet. Same for thicker armor: still using (concentrated?) duranium.
When I get better tech I will probably design an improved version for my warfleet.
thx for the advice :)

[Jacob/Lee]

No PD?

Oh man, I will give you a medal if you get into a real conflict with those ships and they manage to survive a hailstorm of missiles. I managed to have size 7 duranium armor survive strength 6 nuclear explosions coming in waves of 30 for about 10 volleys, but good luck with a real battle.

Also, what does initiative and promotion score mean when a new officer joins?

[Dutchling]

Well, I'm going to research it now, so a new versions of those ships will probably come before the first ones are actually made >.>

[Jacob/Lee]

If you get ECM, don't forget ECCM. Also, you might want a better engine.

[gimlet]

I agree on PD - with low tech even a pretty good pile of my anti-missile missile ships lets through a lot of leakers.  A handful of PD gun escorts really REALLY cut down on that so that only a very few got through.  And that's with low low tech - 16k speed on max oversized turrets and only a couple levels of meson.   I much prefer to do this than put more than minimal CIWS on every ship, it gives a fleet-wide final fire capability for similar BP.    And I long for the day I finally get enough research done to add a few ships with 150k-250k+ gun PD range for one more layer of defense that doesn't need tons of bloody missiles carted around... :p  (I'm not QUITE good enough with the controls to put a detachment of the short ranged gun escorts along the threat axis, I always screw up and it works less well than simply having them piled on the fleet)

One other thing - on the Amsterdams consider using the "smaller size/slower reload" tech to give yourself a bigger salvo size at the expense of reload speed.  At 20k missile speed, even at 30m km it will be about 1500 seconds (modified by relative ship speeds of course) before you see the results of firing.  The "50% size/5x reload" would give 28 launchers at 200 second reload, for only 3000 RP (and on the path to the useful "box launcher" tech to use gunboats/fighters to throw REALLY big volleys for cheap and at standoff range from my heartbreakingly expensive capital ships).

I also make the tradeoff of reducing the active sensor a bit on both the offensive and defensive missile ships and using the saved BP to make sure each fleet has a couple of SWACS/scouts/squadron leaders with the needed longer-range sensors.  (And ideally a couple of SWACS gunboats/fighters too for backup)

[Jacob/Lee]

Also, what does initiative and promotion score mean when a new officer joins?

[Tarran]

What errors are you getting?

[Tarran]

Can you type down the whole messages so I can search their forums without getting loads of useless results?

[Singularity-SRX]

Posting to watch, as my laptop can't play the game, due to the resolution

And has anyone else checked out the forums there?
He's started development on Aurora 2, one that will actually fit more resolutions ^^

[Dutchling]

(do you) Have you the wrong decimal thing, installed the game in program files, did not follow the installed instructions carefully or played with NPRs?

also: an error has a name (error in BladibaldiaBla).

@Singulartiy: How small is your laptop? There is smaller screen option (800p height)

[Singularity-SRX]

@Singulartiy: How small is your laptop? There is smaller screen option (800p height)

...1366x768 

So close yet so far