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[Pwnzerfaust]

Try asking on the bugs forum on the Aurora forum. The guy who makes the game, Steve, frequents the forum and will help you out.

[Felius]

As for Active Sensors, you'll need a buttload of VERY high tech sensors in order to cover an entire system. Don't even try.

I put a single PDC with a size 50 active sensor on all of my colonies, along with a few missile bases with missile fire control and extremely long range missiles to match. In Sol the sensor on Earth covers out to between the orbits of Jupiter and Saturn, and includes most of the system's jump points. If a war breaks out I also have plans for system defense FACs with box launchers that can take advantage of the provided sensor coverage to volley their missiles while undetected and then return to their hangars for a reload. Because those 1.5 billion kilometer range missiles cost a fortune.

That's not to say that deep space tracking stations are useless; they don't require populations to run, so I usually put 10-20 on a moon in any uninhabited system as a sort of garrison/early warning system. You can use the system map to tell what their ranges are vs a given emission rating; I aim for 700 since that's the thermal emissions rating of my fairly small survey ships.

Putting only tracking stations on an otherwise empty colony even causes the game to label it as a "listening post", so I assume it's intended gameplay.

The problem with a size 50 active sensor at the PDC is that it would probably be very expensive to research, and when it eventually becomes obsolete, you'd need to do it all over again.

[EuchreJack]

Actually, there is no need to research it again once the underlying tech is old, provided the player doesn't mind if such a sensor is optimized.

[Felius]

That's not to say that deep space tracking stations are useless; they don't require populations to run, so I usually put 10-20 on a moon in any uninhabited system as a sort of garrison/early warning system. You can use the system map to tell what their ranges are vs a given emission rating; I aim for 700 since that's the thermal emissions rating of my fairly small survey ships.

Don't count on it actually. If the guys entering your system makes engines with reduced thermal emissions it won't do you much good. My (currently very outdated, waiting some research to finish before the designing new ones) main warships have total thermal emissions at 300. My next warship model, with engine tech 3 generations better (No, I have not found many enemies to pressure me in building ships very fast ) is going to likely have around 100 signature.

Actually, there is no need to research it again once the underlying tech is old, provided the player doesn't mind if such a sensor is optimized.

But you'd need a better range at some point, specially if the enemy starts building stealth ships.

[Bremen]

That's not to say that deep space tracking stations are useless; they don't require populations to run, so I usually put 10-20 on a moon in any uninhabited system as a sort of garrison/early warning system. You can use the system map to tell what their ranges are vs a given emission rating; I aim for 700 since that's the thermal emissions rating of my fairly small survey ships.

Don't count on it actually. If the guys entering your system makes engines with reduced thermal emissions it won't do you much good. My (currently very outdated, waiting some research to finish before the designing new ones) main warships have total thermal emissions at 300. My next warship model, with engine tech 3 generations better (No, I have not found many enemies to pressure me in building ships very fast ) is going to likely have around 100 signature.

Actually, there is no need to research it again once the underlying tech is old, provided the player doesn't mind if such a sensor is optimized.

But you'd need a better range at some point, specially if the enemy starts building stealth ships.

The listening posts aren't meant as a defense in war, and even if they do use stealth ships I always put the listening posts on the body closest to the jump point back towards my empire; my only goal is to find out someone is there in time to react, rather than trying to keep a garrison on each jump point.

As far as the sensors, they aren't that expensive to research compared to entire new techs; especially considering that they don't need to be updated every generation. Also, in my experience active sensor range grows much faster each generation than passive sensors or weapon ranges, so it's actually fairly trivial to keep them at a capable level. And mostly it's done for simplicity's sake; it's a lot easier to put one size 50 sensor on Earth than scatter size 15 ones throughout the system. And, as you just pointed out, it's still more dependable than passive sensors, and I use a combination (the passives are just in other systems).

If it has one weakness, it's that my entire defense strategy has one point of failure; neither the missile bases nor system defense craft have their own sensors. If the game were multiplayer, another player might try poking through the jump point and sending their own missiles at the sensor station, which is pretty much the most easily detectable construction that can be built. Even against the AI I suspect they'll shoot at it first simply because it's the first thing they'll detect. This is why it has nothing but the sensor and about a hundred layers of armor (and the missile bases are capable of anti-missile fire).

[EuchreJack]

Actually, the AI does in fact prefer to target sensor-equipped units, from what I've read.

[Felius]

So I finally designed my new warship:

Oregon II class Missile Destroyer    12,000 tons     855 Crew     3276.3 BP      TCS 240  TH 100  EM 2400
2604 km/s     Armour 20-46     Shields 80-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 28
Annual Failure Rate: 230%    IFR: 3.2%    Maint Capacity 1853 MSP    Max Repair 141 MSP    Est Time: 2.9 Years
Magazine 538   

Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E5 (5)    Power 125    Fuel Use 50%    Signature 20    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 480,000 Litres    Range 144.0 billion km   (640 days at full power)
Theta R300/20 Shields (20)   Total Fuel Cost  400 Litres per day

CIWS-200 (1x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 6 Missile Launcher (4)    Missile Size 6    Rate of Fire 30
Size 1 Missile Launcher (4)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Missile Fire Control FC204-R60 (2)     Range 204.9m km    Resolution 60
Missile Fire Control FC32-R1 (2)     Range 32.3m km    Resolution 1
Size 6 Long Range Anti-ship Missile (40)  Speed: 25,000 km/s   End: 80m    Range: 120m km   WH: 16    Size: 6    TH: 183 / 110 / 55
Size 1 Anti-missile Missile (128)  Speed: 62,500 km/s   End: 9.6m    Range: 36m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 833 / 500 / 250

Active Search Sensor MR7-R1 (1)     GPS 56     Range 7.8m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR128-R120 (1)     GPS 10080     Range 128.8m km    Resolution 120

ECCM-2 (2)         ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

It's kinda slow for it's engine tech, but it's not intended to outrun the enemy, just to get into range and fire missiles at them till they glow. It's also very heavily armored, and heavily shielded. It doesn't have a lot of sensors, but I plan to field it together with a command ship with lots of sensors and even more armor (as the AI target them. =p).

I'm also thinking of making a ship against the swarm and similar enemies. Considering that my beam tech sucks a lot, and that they're using mesons, I'd probably make it as a less armored, PD missile ship. Or just a PD ship maybe, if I can make the shipyard build both of them.

[Tarran]

Nothing wrong with that ship as far as I can see for that tech and it's intended purposes, besides the huge amount of armor. Seriously, dude, 20x46 is 920 points of armor, which is quite a lot in my opinion along with that large shield stack for a missile ship. Personally, I'd drop 1/2 of the armor or drop the armor to 12/14 and the shields to 60. That'd clear up a lot of room for moar missiles.

Of course, if you only plan on building this ship and nothing else, maybe the armor is a good idea. Otherwise, that's a lot of armor. More than I think you'd need.

Also, you may want to stick some ECM on it if you plan to outrange your enemy. It doesn't need to be your top of the line ECM, just a compact or Small Craft ECM. Every little bit helps, and it takes up so little space.

[Felius]

Nothing wrong with that ship as far as I can see for that tech and it's intended purposes, besides the huge amount of armor. Seriously, dude, 20x46 is 920 points of armor, which is quite a lot in my opinion along with that large shield stack for a missile ship. Personally, I'd drop 1/2 of the armor or drop the armor to 12/14 and the shields to 60. That'd clear up a lot of room for moar missiles.

Of course, if you only plan on building this ship and nothing else, maybe the armor is a good idea. Otherwise, that's a lot of armor. More than I think you'd need.

Also, you may want to stick some ECM on it if you plan to outrange your enemy. It doesn't need to be your top of the line ECM, just a compact or Small Craft ECM. Every little bit helps, and it takes up so little space.

It's actually using my top of the lime ECM. ECM 1. I really need to research EW more. The armor is somewhat because of the trauma I had against precursors with my previous warship, with 6 armor. I intend now my ships to be verifiable fortresses.

It's kinda the onlyish ship. I plan to field it with a command ship with lots of sensors, maybe a jump drive for the fleet, and EVEN MORE ARMOR (the sensors are very likely to draw fire). I also have a PD version of the Oregon II, mostly because I don't have any ship that have decent capabilities for dealing against the swarm. I'd design a new class better fit to do so, with lots less armor, but for now I'd prefer doing this way, as I can build them from the same shipyard.

[Hanzoku]

I agree with the suggestions - drop the armor by half and add a lot more magazine space and launch tubes. Against any opponent with AMMs (precursors), your missiles won't get through without 10+ ships firing.

For a 12k ship, I'd expect 10-14 missiles per volley for the size 6 launchers.

[Osmosis Jones]

I typically have my home world's detection systems as purely passive. I mean, once you get, say, 50 or so tracking stations, you can detect a missile launch out to the orbit of Mars or further.

Heh. In an old game, I had somewhere on the order of 2-300 tracking stations; I got to the point that my scanning ability was so good, it crashed the game. On the upside, I had a novel bug report for Steve

[Akigagak]

How did he take "I am so good at map awareness I broke the game"?

Also, my god I need to get into this, but it's interface is worse than DF's, and there's more to remember. I don't have that kind of time.

[Osmosis Jones]

He replied with something along the lines of "WTF, that would let you see a missile past neptune, you're insane." Then, IIRC, he put a ceiling on sensor strength to prevent that.

[Pwnzerfaust]

So I finally designed my new warship:

Oregon II class Missile Destroyer    12,000 tons     855 Crew     3276.3 BP      TCS 240  TH 100  EM 2400
2604 km/s     Armour 20-46     Shields 80-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 28
Annual Failure Rate: 230%    IFR: 3.2%    Maint Capacity 1853 MSP    Max Repair 141 MSP    Est Time: 2.9 Years
Magazine 538   

Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E5 (5)    Power 125    Fuel Use 50%    Signature 20    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 480,000 Litres    Range 144.0 billion km   (640 days at full power)
Theta R300/20 Shields (20)   Total Fuel Cost  400 Litres per day

CIWS-200 (1x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 6 Missile Launcher (4)    Missile Size 6    Rate of Fire 30
Size 1 Missile Launcher (4)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Missile Fire Control FC204-R60 (2)     Range 204.9m km    Resolution 60
Missile Fire Control FC32-R1 (2)     Range 32.3m km    Resolution 1
Size 6 Long Range Anti-ship Missile (40)  Speed: 25,000 km/s   End: 80m    Range: 120m km   WH: 16    Size: 6    TH: 183 / 110 / 55
Size 1 Anti-missile Missile (128)  Speed: 62,500 km/s   End: 9.6m    Range: 36m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 833 / 500 / 250

Active Search Sensor MR7-R1 (1)     GPS 56     Range 7.8m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR128-R120 (1)     GPS 10080     Range 128.8m km    Resolution 120

ECCM-2 (2)         ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

It's kinda slow for it's engine tech, but it's not intended to outrun the enemy, just to get into range and fire missiles at them till they glow. It's also very heavily armored, and heavily shielded. It doesn't have a lot of sensors, but I plan to field it together with a command ship with lots of sensors and even more armor (as the AI target them. =p).

I'm also thinking of making a ship against the swarm and similar enemies. Considering that my beam tech sucks a lot, and that they're using mesons, I'd probably make it as a less armored, PD missile ship. Or just a PD ship maybe, if I can make the shipyard build both of them.

I agree that it's slow. In fact, I think it's way too slow. For magnetic confinement tech, I'd say you should be around 4k-5k.

Also, do you plan to send dedicated escort ships along with it? I think you definitely should, as four anti-missile missile launchers won't be enough to protect you.

[Another]

Here is a variation on a dedicated anti-missile ship.

Code: [Select]

Vanguard - 3a class Dreadnought    58 900 tons     3500 Crew     10967.6 BP      TCS 1178  TH 1200  EM 18000
1018 km/s     Armour 20-134     Shields 600-300     Sensors 220/220/0/0     Damage Control Rating 90     PPV 60
Annual Failure Rate: 346%    IFR: 4.8%    Maint Capacity 10310 MSP    Max Repair 240 MSP    Est Time: 4.48 Years

Ion Engine E8-"walK" (20)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1 000 000 Litres    Range 38.2 billion km   (434 days at full power)
Epsilon R300/24 Shields (200)   Total Fuel Cost  4 800 Litres per day

Particle Beam-2 (12)    Range 200 000km     TS: 5000 km/s     Power 5-5    ROF 5        2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
CIWS-200 (50x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Fire Control S08 160-10000 (1)    Max Range: 320 000 km   TS: 10000 km/s     97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
Stellarator Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (10)     Total Power Output 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR215-R150 (1)     GPS 24000     Range 215.6m km    Resolution 150
Active Search Sensor MR17-R1 (1)     GPS 160     Range 17.6m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH20-220 (1)     Sensitivity 220     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  220m km
EM Detection Sensor EM20-220 (1)     Sensitivity 220     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  220m km

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 40

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Its sole purpose is rooting precursors out of all systems I found them in. So far - 2 systems cleared with total enemy tonnage down at about 100k tons. Tech levels are not impressive because it was a conventional start but that will be improved once I finish salvaging precursors. First round of salvage is complete as you can guess from that {foreign} ECM40 module.

The thoughts behind the components were:
CIWS - not a single missile so far made it through.
Engines - it is still a little bit faster than Star Swarm mothership and will improve with salvage from my enemies. There is no point in getting close to the enemies if they eventually close in themselves and I can outlive their missiles.
A few tiny weapons with moderate ranges - 200k confidently outreaches mesons and everything else will have to get inside this range to deal any decent amount of damage. I have enough firepower to breach shields and a few layers of armor of a large ship in time it will take it to knock down my own shields. More range and more firepower are definitely planned for the nearest future when I have underlying technologies (probably a few high caliber lasers).
Shields - Precursors have a habit of ramming after exhausting their missile supplies. 20k ton ship does 400 damage on impact, all deposited in a missile-like triangle profile.
Armor - it is somewhat more economical per point of damage prevention than shields (even considering regeneration of shields during combat and that about half total armor is out at the point of first being breached). This particular ship was saved by its first 19 layers of armor in one encounter with uncommon laser-armed precursors.
Fire control - the more range - the better as it influences to-hit chances. Tracking speed is to mount corresponding turreted weapons in the future. No redundancy because at the point it may be needed - shield and armor are already breached and there is no much hope to live 1 or 2 more rounds under such fire. The CIVSs may in theory be linked to this fire control to give me additional 200 damage/5 sec at point blank but one time I tried it I had to click through exactly 50 error messages and hadn't noticed any effect on the target (some kind of bug).
Sensors - decent passive sensors and active ones that are enough to get me flashing like a christmas tree on enemy sensors - just what I need to draw all precursors to me so I don't need to look for them. I may add a resolution 16 sensor when I'll start anti-Swarm campaign.

Against anything with large number of small fast ships or long range non-missile high firepower ships it is intended as fleet command and radar and to be accompanied by smaller damage dealing ships without active sensors of their own. Likely by missile spammers or by carriers with meson fighters.