Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Neonivek]

10 years for guarenteed profit? sounds great!

MIND you... even if you somehow gave them a hundred million dollars in subsities they probably would just flood the solar system in mines and then stop when the resources were gone... waiting patiently for something to happen.

[Hanzoku]

I tend to think the corporate reaction is relatively accurate in Aurora. Compare the merchant marine in Aurora vs. real life - despite the problem with pirates around Somalia, the shipping companies aren't turning around and building destroyers, cruisers and aircraft carriers. They're avoiding the area, complaining to governments to make it safer, and paying ransoms when they have to.

A warship earns no money and only costs a great deal to build and operate. Further, all military shipyards are state owned - and a company building one for their own use will probably only lead to it being seized in the long run, which is also unprofitable.

[EuchreJack]

Sheb, while I agree with your points, note that the mining outpost only pays the state 250 in taxes.  Considering taxes generally range from 5 to 30%, the mining company is earning considerably more that 250 a year.

Also, the mining companies and the shipping companies are seperate entities.  Hence the shipping company not getting any richer when the civilian mines open up.

One can also argue the reason that there is no piracy in Aurora is simply because all governments do not allow private citizens to fly ships with weapons.

[Sheb]

No, the mining companies pay 125 as taxes, if you allow them to sell their minerals to the civilian market. But you can buy their whole production for 250 a year.

Also, while having a fewsmall craft that operate from the shores is easy and ship, doing the same with spacecraft is much more difficilt and expensive. Moreover, it would be almost impossible for pirate to remain undetected and avoid being blown up by government ship. It's like IRL: no pirates have been able to use airplanes to attack air traffic. Too visible, too expensive.

[Areyar]

Also, while having a fewsmall craft that operate from the shores is easy and ship, doing the same with spacecraft is much more difficilt and expensive. Moreover, it would be almost impossible for pirate to remain undetected and avoid being blown up by government ship. It's like IRL: no pirates have been able to use airplanes to attack air traffic. Too visible, too expensive.

Also it is difficult to extract cargo from a plane or capture a plane from the outside.
You could shoot a plane down, but then need a salvage crew to be waiting on the ground to sift through the debris. ... only viable in inaccessible locations.
Hijacking is possible, but (big)planes just take too much infrastructure to hide.
Small planes could work, but likely are not fast enough to intercept cargo jets.

Space however is big enough that there will always be spots to hide, still space is also notoriouslky see-through, so getting hid could be pretty difficult in a system with a military presence. jump holes should be the ticket to setting up a hidden base.

[Sheb]

You'd still need a lot of maintenance facilities to maintain your ships. Plus, since your base would most likely be on an asteroid or unsuitable planet, you'll need lots of infrastructures. And fuel.

Boarding is possible in Aurora, but you need really fast craft to manage it. It is more suited to take over disabled ships than truly board one.

So yeah, same problems than with planes: you just need to much infrastructures to operate spacecraft, too much for pirates. Also notice that Aurora depict races that just went spacial, where ships are still large, expensive things. Too expensive for pirates.

[The Scout]

Wait, you huys use weapons other then missiles? I just get a fleet of missile ships and wreck everything.

[Sheb]

I use mesons as anti-missile weapons, and to save ordnance while killing crippled ships.

[Areyar]

Remember during the golden age of piracy, most pirates had Letters of Mark,
(in)official backing from a nation to prey on ships of another within a certain area.

They could get repairs and supplies at ports belonging to their 'contractor'.

[Sheb]

Those were not pirates, but corsair. And it is true that it would be cool to have civilian corsair raiding your ennemies. However, warfare isn't the same in Aurora. There is pretty few long, protracted wars, most wars are made of short battles, with military ships waiting at jump points and merchants ships safely behind.

[Areyar]

My point, which I forgot to mention sadly, is that the subsidising of corsairs enabled successful ones to establish some independent infrastructure.
Which they could fall back on once they were inevitably dropped and accused of piracy by their sponsor.

equivalent of modern piracy in Aurora would be armed marines boarding (civ) ships in orbit or when exiting a jumppoint/gate. 

Piracy with ships is not really a viable option, I agree.
Corsairs could though, but then I'd rather see mercenaries.

[Felius]

Just to chip in and comment about CIWS in civilian vessels. It's actually pretty useful, mostly because some some of the ships used for more military purposes can be set as a civilian vessel. Maintenance vessels, tankers, I think troop transports, some scouts, and a few others. So you make them civilian to avoid the need of maintaining it and easier building, but still allows for more survivability than otherwise.

[Greenbane]

Just to chip in and comment about CIWS in civilian vessels. It's actually pretty useful, mostly because some some of the ships used for more military purposes can be set as a civilian vessel. Maintenance vessels, tankers, I think troop transports, some scouts, and a few others. So you make them civilian to avoid the need of maintaining it and easier building, but still allows for more survivability than otherwise.

If you're putting commercial vessels in harm's way, you're likely doing it wrong. And if you're not and they still get attacked, no reasonable amount of CIWS platforms will save them.

Unless we're talking about troop transports, and especially if we're discussing ships designed to be built by the private sector, it's better to do without CIWS completely. They aren't exactly cheap systems, and you want freighters, colony ships and luxury liners to be economical so that civilian companies can afford building them frequently.

[Sheb]

But he is right, putting CIWS on your tankers (I don't think collier are civilians) is a good idea if you don't want them to go BOOM! leaving a stranded fleet behind.

[Thexor]

Just to chip in and comment about CIWS in civilian vessels. It's actually pretty useful, mostly because some some of the ships used for more military purposes can be set as a civilian vessel. Maintenance vessels, tankers, I think troop transports, some scouts, and a few others. So you make them civilian to avoid the need of maintaining it and easier building, but still allows for more survivability than otherwise.

If you're putting commercial vessels in harm's way, you're likely doing it wrong. And if you're not and they still get attacked, no reasonable amount of CIWS platforms will save them.

Unless we're talking about troop transports, and especially if we're discussing ships designed to be built by the private sector, it's better to do without CIWS completely. They aren't exactly cheap systems, and you want freighters, colony ships and luxury liners to be economical so that civilian companies can afford building them frequently.

I think the argument he's making is that you design 'military' support vessels, such as troop transports and tankers and the like, and by arming them with CIWS you keep them officially classed as 'commercial'. So your tankers, transports, etc. are now immune to maintenance and can be built at your spare commercial shipyards.

He's not suggesting random commercial ships should have a couple of CIWS in the event they're ambushed by a fleet - that'd be useless and expensive. He's arguing that ships intended to be used in the line of duty can be defended with CIWS to prevent them being officially designated as 'military'. Of course, you'd have to use commercial engines, too, so it's not like there wouldn't be a few drawbacks...