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Author Topic: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games  (Read 2815489 times)

Paul

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1215 on: February 01, 2010, 07:59:12 pm »

Heres my newest PDC that I've started building on my planets. Not mentioned below is the capacity for maintenance supplies, which is 10,000. I included them and the damage control systems in this latest design so that they can make repairs on themself, since I want to be able to build these things on all my worlds, even ones with low industrial output (like my financial center and research worlds) - this way they can repair themselves and just have the world fix the armor damage. My ships can deliver maintenance supplies and missiles.

Code: [Select]
Guardian class Planetary Defence Centre    75000 tons     4965 Crew     23064.3999 BP      TCS 1500  TH 0  EM 0
Armour 40-158     Sensors 1/480     Damage Control Rating 870     PPV 340
Troop Capacity: 5 Battalions    Magazine 8460   

R24/P6 Meson x3 TS41.7 Turret (10x3)    Range 240,000km     TS: 41700 km/s     Power 18-18     RM 24    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
PDC Fire Control S08 180-40 H50 (2)    Max Range: 360,000 km   TS: 40000 km/s     97 94 92 89 86 83 81 78 75 72
GC-AM Power Plant S1-P20 (10)     Total Power Output 200    Armour 0    Exp 5%

PDC Size 1 Missile Launcher RoF-5 (20)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
PDC Size 8 Missile Launcher RoF-15 (20)    Missile Size 8    Rate of Fire 15
Missile Fire Control FC19200-R40 H50 (4)     Range 192.0m km    Resolution 40
Missile Fire Control FC480-R1 H50 (4)     Range 4.8m km    Resolution 1
Guardian Anti-missile (1100)  Speed: 125,100 km/s   End: 0.7m    Range: 5m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 3336 / 2001 / 1000
Hornet Anti-ship Missile (S8) (920)  Speed: 85,000 km/s   End: 37.8m    Range: 192.8m km   WH: 64    Size: 8    TH: 538 / 323 / 161

Active Search Sensor S480-R1 H50 (1)     GPS 480     Range 4.8m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor S19200-R40 H50 (1)     GPS 19200     Range 192.0m km    Resolution 40

Compact ECCM-6 (10)         Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s


This design is classed as a Planetary Defence Centre and can be pre-fabricated in 30 sections

I think it's a pretty good design, but it hasn't been combat tested yet (nobody to fight at the moment, but I know theres at least one living NPR out there since every so often it slows down for him). The armor is really heavy since the last NPR that came after me was tossing around warhead 40 missiles like they were growing on trees and a single missile getting through the defenses was busting up my armor 10 PDCs pretty bad.
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Idiom

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1216 on: February 01, 2010, 08:07:48 pm »

Is there a youtube series of tutorials for this yet like with DF? The gifted people who have already figured this game out would be very generous to produce some.
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Micro102

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1217 on: February 01, 2010, 08:22:47 pm »

Well that's weird, somehow the civilians have become hostile and my planet has surrendered along with all of my ships......


How did that happen?
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Metalax

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1218 on: February 01, 2010, 08:26:57 pm »

did you move a mass driver away from where mineral pellets were being sent? If you do that it stops being mineral transfer and starts being orbital bombardment, which ticks off the civies. That seems to be the normal reason for civilians going hostile.
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Micro102

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1219 on: February 01, 2010, 08:29:14 pm »

nope, everything was to be sent to earth which i have mass drivers on, they only had 2 ships, which are still alive....and why did my ships surrender like that? it said the population surrendered but why?
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Zangi

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1220 on: February 01, 2010, 08:49:42 pm »

nope, everything was to be sent to earth which i have mass drivers on, they only had 2 ships, which are still alive....and why did my ships surrender like that? it said the population surrendered but why?

Stuff like this is probably best answered on the Aurora forums.  Bug or something.  I don't know anything about the surrendering...
A solution to fix relations with civilians(if they are still hostile) is in the diplomacy screen and SM mode...  set relations to 10,000....
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Metalax

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1221 on: February 01, 2010, 08:58:06 pm »

Heres my newest PDC that I've started building on my planets. Not mentioned below is the capacity for maintenance supplies, which is 10,000. I included them and the damage control systems in this latest design so that they can make repairs on themself, since I want to be able to build these things on all my worlds, even ones with low industrial output (like my financial center and research worlds) - this way they can repair themselves and just have the world fix the armor damage. My ships can deliver maintenance supplies and missiles.

Code: [Select]
Guardian class Planetary Defence Centre    75000 tons     4965 Crew     23064.3999 BP      TCS 1500  TH 0  EM 0
Armour 40-158     Sensors 1/480     Damage Control Rating 870     PPV 340
Troop Capacity: 5 Battalions    Magazine 8460   

R24/P6 Meson x3 TS41.7 Turret (10x3)    Range 240,000km     TS: 41700 km/s     Power 18-18     RM 24    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
PDC Fire Control S08 180-40 H50 (2)    Max Range: 360,000 km   TS: 40000 km/s     97 94 92 89 86 83 81 78 75 72
GC-AM Power Plant S1-P20 (10)     Total Power Output 200    Armour 0    Exp 5%

PDC Size 1 Missile Launcher RoF-5 (20)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
PDC Size 8 Missile Launcher RoF-15 (20)    Missile Size 8    Rate of Fire 15
Missile Fire Control FC19200-R40 H50 (4)     Range 192.0m km    Resolution 40
Missile Fire Control FC480-R1 H50 (4)     Range 4.8m km    Resolution 1
Guardian Anti-missile (1100)  Speed: 125,100 km/s   End: 0.7m    Range: 5m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 3336 / 2001 / 1000
Hornet Anti-ship Missile (S8) (920)  Speed: 85,000 km/s   End: 37.8m    Range: 192.8m km   WH: 64    Size: 8    TH: 538 / 323 / 161

Active Search Sensor S480-R1 H50 (1)     GPS 480     Range 4.8m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor S19200-R40 H50 (1)     GPS 19200     Range 192.0m km    Resolution 40

Compact ECCM-6 (10)         Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s


This design is classed as a Planetary Defence Centre and can be pre-fabricated in 30 sections

I think it's a pretty good design, but it hasn't been combat tested yet (nobody to fight at the moment, but I know theres at least one living NPR out there since every so often it slows down for him). The armor is really heavy since the last NPR that came after me was tossing around warhead 40 missiles like they were growing on trees and a single missile getting through the defenses was busting up my armor 10 PDCs pretty bad.

Looks like a very good design. Only things I'd change would be to add another three fire-controls for your beams and to increase your magazine capacity as it seems a little low.
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umiman

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1222 on: February 01, 2010, 09:39:05 pm »

Build it, build some tugs, and tow that sucker to the enemy.

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1223 on: February 02, 2010, 02:01:10 am »

Is there a youtube series of tutorials for this yet like with DF? The gifted people who have already figured this game out would be very generous to produce some.

Im might do it but i might wait until my voice breaks. ;)
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1224 on: February 02, 2010, 03:05:10 am »

This is entirely off-topic (or rather, perpendicular to the topic), but if I were to, for example, want to make a 4X game in a fashion similar to Aurora (I call it Xpanse for the time being), what would you recommend me other than "don't use VB6" and "forget it"? For example, should any graphics at all be included beyond simple icons?
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AussieGuy

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1225 on: February 02, 2010, 03:14:33 am »

In development stages only use simple graphics like Aurora. (but better laid out) On final release tho you should have more graphics so more people will be willing to play.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1226 on: February 02, 2010, 03:14:50 am »

This is entirely off-topic (or rather, perpendicular to the topic), but if I were to, for example, want to make a 4X game in a fashion similar to Aurora (I call it Xpanse for the time being), what would you recommend me other than "don't use VB6" and "forget it"? For example, should any graphics at all be included beyond simple icons?

Graphics should only be as complicated as the information they are trying to convey. A lot of stuff can be inferred and imagined by the player if they so choose. Anything beyond this is just added work, and candy. Though everyone loves candy.

With 4x games, it really comes down to a balance of micro and marco mgm. To much and to little and the game is wonky. If you have to much micro, then it overwhelms and hard to control a cool large empire, if its to much marco then you aren't really doing to much of anything. Ideally it should be flexible enough to allow players to get as micro or marco as they need.

The second issue with 4x game is delivering the vast amount of information in a concise chunks that are both manageable (ideally, easily) and accessible. Sadly, spread sheet are boring to look at, but they are very good at doing this.

Then comes pacing and difficulty. Ideally all parts of the game should be about as difficult, fun and fast. From the start to the end.

Balance is the last thing in my opinion.

Beyond this, I cant get any more detail without having more to go on.


My fantasy 4x would be civilization meets moo. Where you start as tribe in 2500 bc become the dominate civvie on your home world then expand into space.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 03:18:38 am by MrWiggles »
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1227 on: February 02, 2010, 03:58:35 am »

I'm basically aiming at Remember Tomorrow. Aurora does a pretty good job of recreating the general principles of that game, but is far, far too convoluted for any average player to effectively get into.

So far, the general idea is an amalgamation of Remember Tomorrow's design and research, Sword of the Stars's race variety, and Imperium Galactica 2's colony construction and management. I have no idea how to make an AI, but since I'm hardly going to be able to get far enough with the game, I'm not too worried about it.

The science system is a "floating point tree" - the items all have fairly specific prerequisites in regards to other items on the tree (so no production-ready battlecruisers until you can build smaller ships), but it is impossible to specifically research any given item. Instead, you distribute all of your scientific power between General and Applied areas of science, and within those you select specific directions you want your scientists to take. Generic areas are Physics, Mathematics, Chemistry, Biology, Psychology, and whatever else that comes up. Applied areas are specific branches focusing on a definite goal - Optics, Superconduction, Antimatter, that sort of thing. Each item on the list has a pair of prerequisite sets. Upon reaching prerequisites in the first set, you become aware that the item is achievable - it shows up in your research lists, and you can see what areas you need to progress in to reach the second set of prerequisites, at which point the item becomes production-ready (or gets implemented, or anything else depending on the item). But, since having very definite progress prerequisites would prove boring after a couple of playthroughs, there's a degree of randomness in there, and there's more than one set of prerequisites for either showing the item or making it available. Sometimes, it'll be possible for an item to become available when it wasn't even visible at first, which could result from suddenly hitting a second prerequisite set without triggering any of the first.

The ship and unit design was initially going to be less complex, but seeing Aurora I thought it'd be neat to have this kind of detail as well. You're still going to rather directly fill out the "hull" of whatever you're designing with various components, but it's not going to be slot or weight-based. Additionally, you'll be able to design custom weapons using whatever tech you have available - in addition to the weapons your scientists come up with by themselves. The intent is being able to, if it's so desired, to have launchers for ramming torpedoes that carry powered-armor boarding crews, even if it's too ridiculous for the game to have it included initially. Power systems and life support will be vital, and their placement will have effect in combat.

The combat itself is the difficult part. Initially, I thought to have a realtime brawl using simple graphics and a physics engine, but now I doubt it'll be all that good. Especially if there's going to be any multiplayer. So, I guess Aurora's battle design is good enough, but there will be graphic representation. Each ship is going to be a volumetric model (even if blocky and displayed in ASCII if it comes to it), and each projectile impact will be calculated. So no hitting the ship's engines while randomly shunting torpedoes at its bow. Unless your torpedoes are strong enough to punch through, of course. Component position will matter here. If you have fuel tanks close to the hull, a lucky hit may quickly take out the entire ship. Same goes for big blocks of adjacent generators which may be explosive, tiny nigh-unhittable vents that lead straight into your core reactor, and having very thin connections between ship sections. I'm not sure how much load that'll put on the processor, but I hope battles aren't going to be fought by thousands of ships. Initially, at least.

The command structure is something else I thought about. Ideally (and optionally), you're not going to personally have to watch battles unfold, instead you'll receive reports and issue orders from afar. If you do happen to stand on the bridge of your command flagship heading into the heat of battle, you will have that degree of control, but will instead only receive brief reports of your empire's workings. "Overly ambitious" plans include simulating you as a person. As in, what you see is what your character sees. If you're in your office, you will monitor the empire, but you won't see much if you just stay there. Instead of choosing different "wait times", you can also perform different actions. Training combat skills, running simulated battles, participating in public events, etc.

That's all I can type down now, gotta go. These are all just ideas, and I'm not too experienced a gamemaker, but stuff like this is usually fun, so I see no reason not to try.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1228 on: February 02, 2010, 04:11:19 am »

Try what leads to proficiency.
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AussieGuy

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #1229 on: February 02, 2010, 04:44:49 am »

A question about Aurora: How do you add armour to ships?
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