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Author Topic: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games  (Read 2815782 times)

Idiom

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #945 on: January 29, 2010, 05:31:03 pm »

OK, new Aurora player here.

I REALLY want to be able to play this game, but I'm stuck on a few things:
-How soon should I have a ship up and exploring?
-I think I've properly designed a ship, with working engines and all... but I can't figure out how to get the shipyard to start building them. Do I need to finalize a ship design somehow before it can be selected? I set the shipyard to build and then go to select a ship class from the drop down... but there's nothing. I don't get it. Ship designer says there's no errors or anything.
-Why can I manufacture some (and only some) ship components on the industry page separate from the shipyard page? These for PDCs, or do I need the parts sitting around before I can build it in a shipyard?
-Something about shooting supplies between planets with a giant gauss cannon? This is good for getting minerals back to your manufacturing centers right?
-I'm guessing every nook and cranny of weapon research is useful? Or can I play this like GalCiv2 where I can get away with focusing on one branch of weapons?
-Planetary bombardment?
-Interplanetary bombardment?
-Is it more efficient to focus industry and research power housing one project at a time or spreading it all out? I'm used to Civilization based games with one research project and major industry project per-planet at a time.
-Why would I ever want to do a ground invasion when I can just bombard them into submission?
-Is camping jump points with ships specialized for super-CIWs a good idea?
-Can I build immobile stations not in orbit of a planet? IE a gas station?
-If I designate a design as "commercial" (I just need to make the engine "commercial" to do that right?) then civilians will build them right?
-What's a good annual failure rate? 3%? 6%? 10% too much?
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MrWiggles

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #946 on: January 29, 2010, 05:33:05 pm »

But if you go t war with them, could you build a base far away and hide? Or will they develop ESP and send all their ships at you at a place they have not found yet?

For some reason when i go ahead a day, the predicted time for completion for building things goes ahead a day as well?\. Why is this?

(I'm sry for my insane amount of questions) :'(

I don't know if they'll get ESP and know where you are, but from my reading of the various fictions, I would say no.

All construction happen on a five day increment. The stated reason for this is that it'll make Aurora run to poorly to update constructed on every five second increment and it'll only update every five days.
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Micro102

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #947 on: January 29, 2010, 05:49:33 pm »

No, i mean it's September 20, and the predicted time of completion is October 23, i speed up time a day, now it's September 21, and the predicted time of completion is October 24. And it just keeps going.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #948 on: January 29, 2010, 05:57:59 pm »

OK, new Aurora player here.

I REALLY want to be able to play this game, but I'm stuck on a few things:
-How soon should I have a ship up and exploring?

Eventually. This game is different from other x4, where you're first few turns do not determine the end game.

Quote
-I think I've properly designed a ship, with working engines and all... but I can't figure out how to get the shipyard to start building them. Do I need to finalize a ship design somehow before it can be selected? I set the shipyard to build and then go to select a ship class from the drop down... but there's nothing. I don't get it. Ship designer says there's no errors or anything.

The ship yard need to be at a greater or equal tonnage to the ship, then it needs to be retooled for the ship. Military ships may only be built at naval yards (denoted with an N), and civvie at civvie yards (denoted with a C). The Civvie will randomly build your civvie design ships that is dependent on various unknown factors to me.   You can also build civvie ships for your own personal use.

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-If I designate a design as "commercial" (I just need to make the engine "commercial" to do that right?) then civilians will build them right?
-What's a good annual failure rate? 3%? 6%? 10% too much?

Well no, a civvie design contain no military parts. So if you give a ship civvie engines, but a military component it'll be consider a military ship.


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-Why can I manufacture some (and only some) ship components on the industry page separate from the shipyard page? These for PDCs, or do I need the parts sitting around before I can build it in a shipyard?

The shipyard will supply all the needed components. I dont know why you can construct ship components.

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-Something about shooting supplies between planets with a giant gauss cannon? This is good for getting minerals back to your manufacturing centers right?

The mass drivers are only good for mineral shipment within the same system. There are various uses for them. I tend to make a depot and have mass driver shoot mineral to it from across the system or to provide a colony with all eleven minerals.

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-I'm guessing every nook and cranny of weapon research is useful? Or can I play this like GalCiv2 where I can get away with focusing on one branch of weapons?

Every weapon is indeed useful, Microwave, Meson, Gauss, and Rail gun have terrible range. Laser have not as terrible range. Missiles have nigh infinite range.

Microwave weaponry will disable ships. Blind sensors and what not. Meson attack internal component directly, and ignore shields and armor. The player base seems to favor this for anti missile turret work. I don't really know the difference between gauss and rail guns they get used as a last tier or second to last tier missile defense.

Its up to play style really and role playing in the universe. I plan to build fast light laser ships with anti missile escorts.

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-Planetary bombardment?
-Interplanetary bombardment?

Its fun, but can make planet uninhabitable and unfixable with terraforming. You can bombard planets with mineral packets if you don't have a mass driver receiving the goods. And possible you may be able to push asteroids into planets.

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-Why would I ever want to do a ground invasion when I can just bombard them into submission?

Because if you glass a planet into a nuclear inferno no one can use it, including you.

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-Is it more efficient to focus industry and research power housing one project at a time or spreading it all out? I'm used to Civilization based games with one research project and major industry project per-planet at a time.

Not really. Your home planet will be doing various research, building various ships, ground units  and you can split your construction factory work force by percentage to work on various projects. As well as building missiles, and fighter in concert. You can specialized planets, which may may logistic easier.

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-Is camping jump points with ships specialized for super-CIWs a good idea?

This is a play style question. If you like building them, then go for it. CIWs are ship only weapon defense. As in they will act as PD for only the ship or PDC they are placed on.

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-Can I build immobile stations not in orbit of a planet? IE a gas station?
Sure, just don't put any engines on it, and get a tug to place it where ever. The cavate is that they'll need to be tugged back every half a decade for an overhaul.


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MrWiggles

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #949 on: January 29, 2010, 05:59:17 pm »

No, i mean it's September 20, and the predicted time of completion is October 23, i speed up time a day, now it's September 21, and the predicted time of completion is October 24. And it just keeps going.

Oh, then that might be from worker shortage, mineral shortage or unrest or radition or dust on the planet.
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Greiger

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #950 on: January 29, 2010, 06:10:54 pm »

@ Idiom

1) I do it as soon as I can 1 gravsurvey ship and 1 Geosurvey ship is my first priority when I start with nothing.  The gravsurvey ship requires jump point theory research first though.

2) Shipyards have a maximum size in tons that they can build.  You also cannot build military class ships at commercial shipyards.  In the shipyard screen they have a C or an N next to the yard.  C are commercial, N are naval(military)  Naval shipyards can build either, but commercial shipyards can be made to build larger ships easier.  You can increase slipway capacity to let a shipyard build bigger ships, but it takes time.

3) I honestly don't know the point of those.  You don't need anything laying around when building ships.  PDCs I don't have much experience with.  But you can build PDC pefabs and ship them to another colony to be built there quickly.  Thats the only use I noticed for that so far.

4) Mass drivers can shoot minerals between planets in system.  Handy for mining colonies.  I put one on every mining colony and just point them all at one planet for freighter pickup.  Or straight to a manufacturing planet if possible.

5) You can go only one path like in Galciv.  I prefer lasers myself.  But each weapon has diffrent things they are good at.  So while you don't have to recearch all weapon techs, having more than one weapon type you have teched up can help.  I for example use mostly lasers, have plasma carronades as ship main guns due to their sheer damage potential, and missiles for long range combat, since the lasers and cannons are rather short ranged.  I would reccomend a little tech at least in missiles.  They have a range well over that of other weapons.  Like 10x the range.  Lasers and plasma use reactors for power, missiles need magazines for ammo storage and you need to manufacture and load the missiles.

6) Planetary bombardment is firing weapons at an enemy colony.  Don't know much about it other than that most energy weapons don't work against colonies with an atmosphere.  Planetary bombardment also happens when you point a mining colony's mass driver at a colony without a mass driver to catch the load.

7) No idea.

8) Not sure.  I generally go with each research project having 10 labs assigned to it.  I don't think there is any difference in efficiency between different numbers of labs on one project.

9) I imagine a ground invasion keeps the planetary structures intact. While bombardment does not.  Bombardment also adds atmospheric dust and radiation, which is bad if you are planning on colonising afterward.  No first hand experience though.

10) I don't know the term super CIW.  But camping your side of a point is a good way to have a combat advantage.  A ship coming out of a jump point can't activate active sensors and fire control for a time.  Giving you free reign to shoot electric death at them.

11) Yes.  The way I understand it you build a normal ship with no engines and have a tug with tractor beams tow it to where you want it to be.  Apparently it's commonly done with sorium harvesters.

12) Civilians can only build commercial ships yes. They will automatically but I haven't figured out quite what motivates them too.  Note that there are more rules to making a commercial ship than just engines, they can't carry many parts, like damage control or weapons.  The only weapon they can hold are CIWS which aren't technically even weapons, just point defense cannons.

13) Depends on how you are using the ship. Long range independent scouts and survey ships should have a low failure rate.  Ships that are likely to stay nearby populated systems can have higher failure rates.  My Gravsurvey ships have a failure rate of 20% my patrol ships have a failure rate of about 90% and my jump point picket ships have a failure rate of more than 150%
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Idiom

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #951 on: January 29, 2010, 07:25:45 pm »

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Nice helpful people
Yay! I love this place. XD

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Missiles have nigh infinite range.
...so is it possible to build giant interplanetary-missile PDCs?
I feel like re-enacting some old school scifi  :D

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The ship yard need to be at a greater or equal tonnage to the ship, then it needs to be retooled for the ship.
What?
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Micro102

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #952 on: January 29, 2010, 07:28:46 pm »

No, i mean it's September 20, and the predicted time of completion is October 23, i speed up time a day, now it's September 21, and the predicted time of completion is October 24. And it just keeps going.

Oh, then that might be from worker shortage, mineral shortage or unrest or radiation or dust on the planet.

Well I have more protection then everyone is asking, so there shouldn't be unrest (I'm a slow player I just got to Saturn with surveying), I have no radiation, no dust, my stockpiles are all positive, i had one negative for "minerals recently mined" but still plenty left. And it says i have 8.65 available workers, so i don't have a lack of workers either.... although you were right about the 5 day thing. while the times went foward, it went back down every 5 days...I'll chalk it up as a bug.
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Paul

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #953 on: January 29, 2010, 07:33:55 pm »

1. My first game I went out really early and got destroyed by an NPR, but that may have been bad luck. My current game I stayed home for 20 years colonizing the worlds in Sol, then went out after I had decent military tech and a small defense fleet.

2. First you have to retool the shipyard to build a ship, which requires it to be at least as big as the ship and the same type (military or commercial).

3. You can't build basic ship components like fuel storage or crew quarters, the shipyard does that. Ship components aren't equired to build a ship but they are REALLY useful. They are used by shipyards, and when a shipyard uses one it doesn't have to build that component - thus shortening the ship construction time. If you build all of the components you can churn out a ship every month or so, instead of every year. It's only useful if you need to build ships quickly and can spare the construction factories to make them, but it's a lifesaver if you're under attack and need ships now rather than later.

In my first game I was in a battle with a hostile NPR and was losing, but using all my construction factories on all my worlds and shipping the components to earth to build war ships let me build a defense fleet in a month that I couldn't have built in a year without the parts. I still lost (my ships sucked and I didn't know how to control them, heh), but I would have lost a whole lot sooner without using ship components.

4. Like they said, mass drivers. You only need one on the receiving planet. One on the others too, unless they produce more than 10k a year.

5. I like Mesons myself, they go right through armor and shields, but are half range of lasers and only do 1 damage. The one damage is instantly internal damage though, which is nice. I mostly use them for PD to shoot missiles and I'll tear ships up too if they come close enough. Long range weapons, missiles are the best.

6,7,&9. Missiles can nuke planets. You can even make them extra radioactive to kill the population faster. The radiation takes time to dissipate though, so a nuked world isn't as useful for a while. If you can afford it, taking via ground forces is easier on the planet.

8. Your governers sometimes have high bonuses in certain things, so you can focus if you get a good governor for something. Like I have some 30% wealth bonus governors on worlds that I use entirely for financial centers to generate money for my other worlds. Research doesn't get bonuses for that, so you can stick it whereever you have the population for it. You usually want to focus labs on the researchers who have the good bonuses. The bonus is x4 if it's research in their specialty, so you can get huge bonuses if you have people in the areas you need to research. I have a guy with 50% bonus in C&P, x4 = 200%. So he produces triple the normal points, and has a 30 lab limit - effectively 90 labs. I used him to get all the research point techs, current up to the 1000 RP per lab (that one costed a lot of points, hah).

10. CIWS are only useful to defend that specific ship from missiles (doesn't help others in the fleet). I haven't used them much, since they're short range - I usually shoot down all the missiles with anti-missiles, and my fleet's mesons mop them up before they get into 10km range.

11. You could build a ship with no engines loaded with a bunch of fuel tanks, use another ship with a tractor beam to tow it into location, and then send other ships there to refuel. You would still have to send ships to refuel it though. Probably easier to make a colony on a rock somewhere and just dump fuel on it, then refuel from there. I think you can just add a colony to an asteroid and not put any people on it and just store stuff there. I haven't tried, though.

12. Like they said, it requires no military components - not just civ engines. Also, about civs: Civ shipping lines will eventually build either colony ships, freighters, or luxury liners (if you designed them). If you don't want them building a certain ship you can set it to obsolete in the design window after you have a shipyard retooling for it. To get them started you can go into the shipping line window (ctrl L) and subsidize them. They spend the amount of money that the ship costs in build points, so if your only freighter costs 6,000 BP then they need 6,000 cash to buy one. Subsidize them to that level and they should construct a ship in a few months.

13. It depends on the ship. If it's really big you might have a failure rate of 100%. That just means something on it will fail every year, but if your maintenance supplies is significantly above the max repair (cost to repair the most expensive component on the ship) you can last a while even with constant failures. You just have to resupply every so often. Maintenance failures aren't necessarily bad, it just consumes supplies - as long as you have the supplies nothing happens. If you don't have the supplies the part becomes damaged and you have to spend more supplies later to fix it.

-edit- I think the the moving time to build thing going up by a day is just an oddity, its all calculated in 5 day periods so if you pass a single day it will adjust it assuming you were going to pass a 5 day next I guess - but if you keep passing 1 days it will eventually hit the 5 day mark and cycle it back. If you just use a 5 day increment it will stay the same, but it doesn't much matter either way - it's just a display thing, the actual construction points left isn't changing.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 07:46:26 pm by Paul »
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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #954 on: January 29, 2010, 07:37:29 pm »

Sorry for the double post, but I didn't want to mix this in with the behemoth that was my other post.

I whipped up an OpenOffice sheet a few days ago to help me get optimal missile designs. I figured other people might make use of it, so I added a few notes explaining what is what and uploaded it. You just plug in your technology stats, desired missile warhead, range, and size - as well as extra stuff if you're using armor. Then the sheet gives you the fuel capacity and warhead strengths required for the desired stats, as well as a chart showing a bunch of different agility levels and speed ratings using the remaining space. It also marks the highest to hit chance given a target speed, so you can easily see the optimal point if you want a really accurate missile. Or you can climb the chart a bit and get less accuracy for a bit more speed. It even shaves off a bit of free space if it won't further increase the missile speed, which you can dump back into the fuel capacity for a few extra kilometers. You can copy the cells and just paste the numbers into Aurora's missile design window, so it's really easy to move a design from the spreadsheet to a design in the game.

The sheet is protected with highlighted cells for data entry so you don't accidentally change something and mess it up, but it isn't passworded so you can unprotect it and fiddle with it if you like. I'm not sure if it would work with Excel or not, since I made it entirely in OpenOffice and don't have excel on this computer.

Heres the download link: http://drop.io/X3MODSPP/asset/aurora-missile-design-zip

As an example, heres an anti-missile design that I've been using that was generated using this sheet.

Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 1    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 64
Speed: 124000 km/s    Endurance: 1 minutes   Range: 4.8m km
Cost Per Missile: 3.6663
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 7936%   3k km/s 2624%   5k km/s 1587.2%   10k km/s 793.6%
Materials Required:    0.25x Tritanium   3.1539x Gallicite   Fuel x6.75

Development Cost for Project: 367RP

If you like missiles, this is a handy tool for quickly designing them :)

-edit- Whoops! I forgot to include a cell for changing the fuel efficiency tech, so it was keeping things at my really high tech level for that and throwing off the missile range for low tech designs. If anyone actually tried to use it, sorry about that - it's fixed now and now has a fuel efficiency tech cell.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 05:41:58 pm by Paul »
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Micro102

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #955 on: January 29, 2010, 07:43:33 pm »

That is one expensive missile....and can it only go 4.8 km? I'm not familiar with how the range works.

It also looks like it's weak. The percentage of hit could be lowered too...having 700% is the same as 120%, it will hit either way.
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Emperor_Jonathan

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #956 on: January 29, 2010, 07:50:06 pm »

That is one expensive missile....and can it only go 4.8 km? I'm not familiar with how the range works.
4.8 million km.
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It also looks like it's weak. The percentage of hit could be lowered too...having 700% is the same as 120%, it will hit either way.

It's an anti-missile design, doesn't have to be powerful. Also, missiles are fast. With anti-missiles missiles you want them to be faster, so it has a higher chance of hitting.
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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #957 on: January 29, 2010, 07:53:47 pm »

It's an anti-missile, designed for taking out other missiles. And 3.6663 is costly? That's only a bit over three and a half minerals. I use them by the hundred to defend my fleets. The range is 4.8m (note the m, meaning million) km. That's short range for a missile, but plenty good enough for a quick intercept missile to take out incoming missiles. The warhead is only 1, since that's all you need to destroy an enemy missile. The to hit chance is really high because that's the hit chance to hit a 10,000 km/s target. That might be good for enemy ships, but this one is targeting missiles. Specifically I designed it for an NPR that has been tossing 80,000 km/s missiles at me. Against them it has a 99.2% hit chance. It's an extremely effective defense.

-edit- Heres one of my anti-ship missiles. Much longer range and more punch.

Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 4 MSP  (0.2 HS)     Warhead: 24    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 11
Speed: 96800 km/s    Endurance: 34 minutes   Range: 196.4m km
Cost Per Missile: 12.4754
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1064.8%   3k km/s 352%   5k km/s 213%   10k km/s 106.5%
Materials Required:    6x Tritanium   6.2506x Gallicite   Fuel x1090.5

Development Cost for Project: 1248RP
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 08:00:50 pm by Paul »
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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #958 on: January 29, 2010, 08:15:34 pm »

My missile is .74 per missile, with the same resources, i would win.

I read that torpedoes were bad anti missile weapons but missiles vs missiles, hmmmm. Are turrets not working or something?

And my grav surveyors have finished finding jump points. How do i call them back to earth or is their something else they can do?
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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #959 on: January 29, 2010, 08:26:13 pm »

My missile is .74 per missile, with the same resources, i would win.

I read that torpedoes were bad anti missile weapons but missiles vs missiles, hmmmm. Are turrets not working or something?

And my grav surveyors have finished finding jump points. How do i call them back to earth or is their something else they can do?

To call them back, you have to go to the task group menu and select the task group that the survey ships are in, and issue a move to order to earth. Grav sensor only survey jump points, once they are fully surveyed, there nothing left for that sensor to do in that system. You can send them to other system if you have a jump tender or if they are jump enabled.


Quote
Nice helpful people
Yay! I love this place. XD

Quote
Missiles have nigh infinite range.
...so is it possible to build giant interplanetary-missile PDCs?
I feel like re-enacting some old school scifi  :D

Quote
The ship yard need to be at a greater or equal tonnage to the ship, then it needs to be retooled for the ship.
What?

If your ship is 45000 tonnes, then the shipyard has to be at least 45000 tonnes to build it (and be naval if a navy ship or civvie, if a civvie ship). After the shipyard is at the right size, then it must be retooled to build the selected ship class.

In game explanation is that its preps is tools and lifts and dry dock for that particular ship.

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