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[Girlinhat]

Sigh, Aurora, you tempt me with your numbers and logistics.
While minecraft still has me in its warm comforting embrace,
My mind will still be taken by the cold emotionless grip of Aurora-Crack.

[SPREADSHEETS INTENSIFY]

[Pwnzerfaust]

Reduced size lasers. It's already a stretch to mount anything but Gauss cannons or them on something that's under 500t with everything it needs. Ofc. you're going to have a painfully long recharge for anything with a decent aperture diameter.

The ideal purpose of these ships would be surgical strikes.  With an enemy I encountered relatively often, such as the starswarm or a particular NPR, I could tweak the design to deal armor + 1 damage, with the hopes of hitting the engine, and then sending in boarding crew.

Otherwise I might as well go gauss.  Close range gauss is one of the most terrifying things.

I'm a whore for missile fighters, really. I used to stick a gauss on my fighters, but I've found that just plopping a few box launchers on them with size 4-6 missiles makes for quite a dangerous little platform.

[Girlinhat]

Reduced size lasers. It's already a stretch to mount anything but Gauss cannons or them on something that's under 500t with everything it needs. Ofc. you're going to have a painfully long recharge for anything with a decent aperture diameter.

The ideal purpose of these ships would be surgical strikes.  With an enemy I encountered relatively often, such as the starswarm or a particular NPR, I could tweak the design to deal armor + 1 damage, with the hopes of hitting the engine, and then sending in boarding crew.

Otherwise I might as well go gauss.  Close range gauss is one of the most terrifying things.

I'm a whore for missile fighters, really. I used to stick a gauss on my fighters, but I've found that just plopping a few box launchers on them with size 4-6 missiles makes for quite a dangerous little platform.

I've never seen the exact purpose of this.  If I want missiles with more range, I give them a second stage sub-munition, where the first stage is a very fuel-efficient engine.  That's really the only purpose for box-launcher fighters.  They might get some further-reaching sensors, and they act as long range engines for the missiles they're delivering.

A fighter is 10HS or less.
A hanger deck holds 20HS, but weighs 21HS tons itself.
A stripped down fighter might have 2HS set aside for fuel, engine, and cockpit, leaving 8HS available for missiles.
2x fighters means a total of 16HS for missile firing.
Remove the hanger deck and you could fit 21HS for missiles.
The extra 5HS could be used for second-stage launch ability, letting you get enormous range using disposable fuel tanks which are pretty dirt cheap, because missiles at this size are measured in the decimal points of resources.

The real joy of fighters is their fast speed, and thus their ability to evade enemy fire, intercept missiles, and bring relatively powerful weapons to close range.  Spinal laser and gauss fighters make a lot of sense, and even a plasma bomber if you could fit a carronade inside 500t.  Missile fighters seem better relegated to larger missile launchers on the parent craft.

[Flying Dice]

Flavor.

[Duuvian]

I design several kinds of fighters, and give them the same engine and tonnage so they are the same speeds.

Sure, most of them would likely be terrible failures but I've read too many Star Wars Rogue Squadron books to not attempt to do silly stuff like squadrons made up of shielded quad laser fighters with an additional box launcher. I'm not even sure that would be possible to make under 500 tons but it's a fine example of outlandish design if it can be. Too bad fighters can't mount jump engines. I add one or more PD fighter in the attack squadrons so I feel like I'm at least making an attempt at swatting AMMs.

[Bremen]

Reduced size lasers. It's already a stretch to mount anything but Gauss cannons or them on something that's under 500t with everything it needs. Ofc. you're going to have a painfully long recharge for anything with a decent aperture diameter.

The ideal purpose of these ships would be surgical strikes.  With an enemy I encountered relatively often, such as the starswarm or a particular NPR, I could tweak the design to deal armor + 1 damage, with the hopes of hitting the engine, and then sending in boarding crew.

Otherwise I might as well go gauss.  Close range gauss is one of the most terrifying things.

I'm a whore for missile fighters, really. I used to stick a gauss on my fighters, but I've found that just plopping a few box launchers on them with size 4-6 missiles makes for quite a dangerous little platform.

I've never seen the exact purpose of this.  If I want missiles with more range, I give them a second stage sub-munition, where the first stage is a very fuel-efficient engine.  That's really the only purpose for box-launcher fighters.  They might get some further-reaching sensors, and they act as long range engines for the missiles they're delivering.

A fighter is 10HS or less.
A hanger deck holds 20HS, but weighs 21HS tons itself.
A stripped down fighter might have 2HS set aside for fuel, engine, and cockpit, leaving 8HS available for missiles.
2x fighters means a total of 16HS for missile firing.
Remove the hanger deck and you could fit 21HS for missiles.
The extra 5HS could be used for second-stage launch ability, letting you get enormous range using disposable fuel tanks which are pretty dirt cheap, because missiles at this size are measured in the decimal points of resources.

The real joy of fighters is their fast speed, and thus their ability to evade enemy fire, intercept missiles, and bring relatively powerful weapons to close range.  Spinal laser and gauss fighters make a lot of sense, and even a plasma bomber if you could fit a carronade inside 500t.  Missile fighters seem better relegated to larger missile launchers on the parent craft.

The advantage to missile fighters is they're basically a reusable first stage of the missile. But yeah, there isn't much they can do that couldn't be done by a two stage missile.

I'm a big fan of beam fighters, but unfortunately they're very vulnerable to AMMs, which just so happen to be probably the most dangerous weapon system in AI hands. That's why my beam fighters tend to be more like beam gunships; 400ish tons, armored to survive a few AMMs, with a railgun for its rapid fire point defense capabilities.

[JOKER_G]

Well, I have 3 types of fighters:Light Bomber(6 box launcher,250t), Fighter(Sensor and 10 box launcher,500t), Gunship(15cm Laser, 500t). Light Bombers are what you said, two stage missile with a reusable first stage, but they were more flexible. I can launch 3 ASM at a damaged ship rather than launch 6 and wasting 3, or change its target if the original one being destroyed by long-ranged SSM. In one battle NPR FACs try to harass my battle group, enter my MFC range, launch self-guided missile and exit. My fighters and bombers successfully keep them away, which can't be done by two stage missile.

My fighters work very well in hunting FACs. The resolution 1 sensor on my destroyer have 70m range vs FACs, not enough, but bigger ones are too expensive and oversized for my destroyer design, r20 sensor have the same problem. So I designed Cobra class fighter, with r1 sensor and MFC ranged 5m and some anti-FAC missiles. With the help of a thermal sensor on my commander ship, these Cobras are extremly effective against missile boats.

[Metalax]

Other than being a reusable first stage, missile fighters really have two roles that I've seen. First is to strike without revealing the location of your actual fleet, potentially pulling defending forces out of position if they move to engage your fighters while your main fleet comes in on a different vector. Gunboats can also fulfil this role, sometimes with greater effectiveness. Second is to sneak in against forces that don't have active sensors on-line, to launch an alpha strike from well inside of the distance at which enemy antimissile defences usually start to fire, potentially allowing more missiles to reach the target.

[Girlinhat]

Other than being a reusable first stage, missile fighters really have two roles that I've seen. First is to strike without revealing the location of your actual fleet, potentially pulling defending forces out of position if they move to engage your fighters while your main fleet comes in on a different vector. Gunboats can also fulfil this role, sometimes with greater effectiveness. Second is to sneak in against forces that don't have active sensors on-line, to launch an alpha strike from well inside of the distance at which enemy antimissile defences usually start to fire, potentially allowing more missiles to reach the target.

I've historically (before engine changes) had great results with 'fleetkiller' missiles.  A long-range, low-thermal drone that splits into dozens of small, high-powered warheads.  In some instances, I seemed to wipe out the entire fleet before they knew they were under attack, the thermal signature is just that low.  A .1 size active sensor on each sub-munition is enough to have them auto-redirect fire to the next live target, which enables you to launch dozens or hundreds of missiles that can simply eat through a fleet in one pass.

[Broseidon]

Hello, currently trying to get into this game but my Grav Survey Ships seem to be stuck on SP needed: X
Their current orders are
Default Orders:
Primary, Survey Next 5 System Bodies.  Secondary, Refuel at Current System.
Conditional Order A, Fuel less than 30%, Order, Refuel at Colony within 4 Jumps. 

The load out is here;

Cheonghaejin class Gravitational Survey Vessel    3 100 tons     76 Crew     620.2 BP      TCS 62  TH 240  EM 0
3870 km/s     Armour 1-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 10/1/3/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 0
Maint Life 11.88 Years     MSP 1250    AFR 38%    IFR 0.5%    1YR 16    5YR 245    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 48 months    Spare Berths 1   

Yi Foundation(Military) 60 EP Ion Drive (4)    Power 60    Fuel Use 76%    Signature 60    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 19.1 billion km   (57 days at full power)

Tang-Sung Active Search Sensor MR22-R85 (1)     GPS 3400     Range 22.1m km    Resolution 85
Ku-Kam Thermal Sensor TH2-10 (1)     Sensitivity 10     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10m km
Gravitational Survey Sensors (3)   3 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

[Girlinhat]

Grav is used for warp points, don't survey a body, instead survey 'survey point'.

Geo is used for bodies (planets, asteroids, comets) while Grav is used for warp points, which appear at like 16 different Lagrange points in the system.  If you put both on a single ship, you can give its primary standing order to survey bodies, and the secondary standing order to survey points.

When you change the standing orders, remember to go into the manual order-designation screen and clear its existing 'geo scan body' order because a new standing order doesn't clear any existing orders, it only decides what to do when idle.

[Broseidon]

Yeah they are working now, thanks a ton. Maybe there is one more thing you can help me with, I have my geo survey ships set to survey next 5 system bodies with secondary orders to refuel at 30% to nearest colony in system but one of my geo survey ships ran out of fuel. Maybe it's an engine problem or a design malfunction?

Jinju class Geological Survey Vessel    3 100 tons     76 Crew     620.2 BP      TCS 62  TH 240  EM 0
3870 km/s     Armour 1-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 10/1/0/3     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 0
Maint Life 11.12 Years     MSP 1250    AFR 38%    IFR 0.5%    1YR 19    5YR 278    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 48 months    Spare Berths 1   

Yi Foundation(Military) 60 EP Ion Drive (4)    Power 60    Fuel Use 76%    Signature 60    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 19.1 billion km   (57 days at full power)

Tang-Sung Active Search Sensor MR22-R85 (1)     GPS 3400     Range 22.1m km    Resolution 85
Ku-Kam Thermal Sensor TH2-10 (1)     Sensitivity 10     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10m km
Geological Survey Sensors (3)   3 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

[Shooer]

That speed, those engines, also military.

Geo ships can be civ ships, if you'll playing with maint times on you'll want to switch to civ engines.  You'll probably want to switch to civ engines anyway so they'll have enough flight time.

The problem you're having with them is that they'll sometimes try and finish their current order before the conditionals fire (they get added to the end of the current order list).

[Girlinhat]

Geo ships can be civ ships, if you'll playing with maint times on you'll want to switch to civ engines.  You'll probably want to switch to civ engines anyway so they'll have enough flight time.

The problem you're having with them is that they'll sometimes try and finish their current order before the conditionals fire (they get added to the end of the current order list).

First, civilian engines are above a certain size (not for sure in the current version) but any vessel that's intended for 'non-speed' use, such as carriers, survey ships, troop transports, etc, you should go for 50HS engines, so you get 50x thrust and 25x fuel use - this turns into a better gas mileage by saving you 1/2 the fuel.  If you've got other mods, such as 50% thrust 18% fuel, then you'll only spend like 9% fuel as normal...  Add in default fuel efficiency at like 0.7 fuel use, and that's closer to 6% fuel use...  It can get pretty nice pretty quickly.

Second, set it to 'survey next body' and 'refuel if 50%' for best results.

[Broseidon]

Ok, thanks to you both for the help.