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Author Topic: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games  (Read 2835544 times)

MarcAFK

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12945 on: January 08, 2013, 10:10:00 pm »


Duranium is the base material you will need for building ships with Neutronium being needed for the armour. Other materials are dependant on what components you place in your ship designs. You can see exactly what materials you will need on the right of the component summary tab on the class design window.

Actually Tech levels of armour use different resources, i discovered this after i changed to composite armour and suddenly depleted my corundium reserves which i was saving for Automines :/
Now i tend to keep some ship designs around just to be able to use older types of armour. Usually a ship with no weapons, engines or anything else, named; Conventional armour, Duranium armour, heavy duranium armour, etc.
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They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.

RedKing

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12946 on: January 09, 2013, 11:11:11 am »


Duranium is the base material you will need for building ships with Neutronium being needed for the armour. Other materials are dependant on what components you place in your ship designs. You can see exactly what materials you will need on the right of the component summary tab on the class design window.

Actually Tech levels of armour use different resources, i discovered this after i changed to composite armour and suddenly depleted my corundium reserves which i was saving for Automines :/
Now i tend to keep some ship designs around just to be able to use older types of armour. Usually a ship with no weapons, engines or anything else, named; Conventional armour, Duranium armour, heavy duranium armour, etc.
Yeah, as I recall the higher tech levels use increasingly less duranium and neutronium but more of the other elements.


EDIT: I recall incorrectly. Some basic testing shows that all levels of armor use only Duranium and Neutronium. At the lowest level, it's pure Duranium, then it starts increasing the amount of Neutronium and decreasing the amount of Duranium. At the highest level (Collapsium), it's purely Neutronium.

You sure something else wasn't depleting your Corundium?? Maintenance, or some components or something?
 

Note that per ton, each tech actually gets more resource intensive. But the armor protection afforded increases so that the overall weight and resource cost goes down (except for certain situations -- see below)

Per HS (50 tons) of armor, it stacks out like this:

Duranium: 5 tons Duranium
High Density Duranium: 6 tons Duranium
Composite: 7 tons Duraniuim, 1 ton Neutronium
Ceramic Composite: 8 tons Duranium, 2 tons Neutronium
Laminate Composite: 9 tons Duranium, 3 tons Neutronium
Compressed Carbon: 10 tons Duranium, 5 tons Neutronium
Biphase Carbide: 12 tons Duranium, 6 tons Neutronium
Crystalline Composite: 12 tons Duranium, 9 tons Neutronium
Superdense: 10 tons Duranium, 15 tons Neutronium
Bonded Superdense: 6 tons Duranium, 24 tons Neutronium
Coherent Superdense: 4 tons Duranium, 32 tons Neutronium
Collapsium: 45 tons Neutronium

Armor strength is a direct function of total mineral cost. So Duranium has a strength of 5 per 50 tons of armor, while Collapsium has a strength of 45 per 50 tons of armor.

Also means that Collapsium is 90% pure Neutronium, while Duranium armor is only 10% pure Duranium.

Another interesting effect is that at low armor levels and low craft weights, upgrading the armor is somewhat counterproductive past a certain point. If you have small craft with 1 or 2 points of armor, you reach an armor weight of 0.1 relatively quickly. Any further upgrades are not going to decrease the weight, but will increase the mineral cost.   
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 01:48:29 pm by RedKing »
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MarcAFK

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12947 on: January 09, 2013, 09:53:17 pm »

That's interesting, I guess i was remembering wrong, Also i usually at lower tech levels found armour upgrades to be very useful for increasing craft speed/longevity merely due to reduced weight.
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They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.

Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12948 on: January 09, 2013, 11:26:30 pm »

Wrote a drabble or two on first contact with Precursors in my new campaign while waiting for some videos to buffer. Warning: May contain an aesop regarding assumptions. There are two that I planned for the engagement to liven up the fluff, both of which contributed to the results. The first is fairly obvious, but the second is related to AI behavior and might be a bit trickier if you're not intimately familiar with it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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EuchreJack

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12949 on: January 10, 2013, 01:18:51 am »


Duranium is the base material you will need for building ships with Neutronium being needed for the armour. Other materials are dependant on what components you place in your ship designs. You can see exactly what materials you will need on the right of the component summary tab on the class design window.

Actually Tech levels of armour use different resources, i discovered this after i changed to composite armour and suddenly depleted my corundium reserves which i was saving for Automines :/
Now i tend to keep some ship designs around just to be able to use older types of armour. Usually a ship with no weapons, engines or anything else, named; Conventional armour, Duranium armour, heavy duranium armour, etc.
you reach an armor weight of 0.1 relatively quickly. Any further upgrades are not going to decrease the weight
Mathmatically, I'm assuming one reaches that level at Ceramic Composite (it equals 10).  Let me know if I'm wrong, as aspiring Aurora fighter jocks would like to know.

Zangi

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12950 on: January 10, 2013, 03:51:08 pm »


Duranium is the base material you will need for building ships with Neutronium being needed for the armour. Other materials are dependant on what components you place in your ship designs. You can see exactly what materials you will need on the right of the component summary tab on the class design window.

Actually Tech levels of armour use different resources, i discovered this after i changed to composite armour and suddenly depleted my corundium reserves which i was saving for Automines :/
Now i tend to keep some ship designs around just to be able to use older types of armour. Usually a ship with no weapons, engines or anything else, named; Conventional armour, Duranium armour, heavy duranium armour, etc.
you reach an armor weight of 0.1 relatively quickly. Any further upgrades are not going to decrease the weight
Mathmatically, I'm assuming one reaches that level at Ceramic Composite (it equals 10).  Let me know if I'm wrong, as aspiring Aurora fighter jocks would like to know.
I would wager Compressed Carbon Armour, it should be .1 in size. Its predecessor, Laminate Composite is .2 in size.  Ceramic Composite is .3 in size.

Difference between Laminate and Ceramic for a shell/non-component/fighter sized ship:  Laminate vs Ceramic
Grade 1 armour is 175 tons versus 180 tons.
Grade 10 armour is 350 tons versus 410 tons.

You can check all this in the Component Summary tab of the Class Design(F5), once you have the appropriate tech level.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12951 on: January 10, 2013, 06:51:11 pm »

Just going to drop a warning here: From what I can tell, ResizeEnable does not work on a system running Win8, so if you're use it be careful that you're going for a higher resolution display if you upgrade to a computer with Win8. Found this out, surprisingly enough, because of the foreign intelligence window, which is apparently much taller now.
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Aurora on small monitors:
1. Game Parameters -> Reduced Height Windows.
2. Lock taskbar to the right side of your desktop.
3. Run Resize Enable

RedKing

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12952 on: January 11, 2013, 11:06:33 am »


Duranium is the base material you will need for building ships with Neutronium being needed for the armour. Other materials are dependant on what components you place in your ship designs. You can see exactly what materials you will need on the right of the component summary tab on the class design window.

Actually Tech levels of armour use different resources, i discovered this after i changed to composite armour and suddenly depleted my corundium reserves which i was saving for Automines :/
Now i tend to keep some ship designs around just to be able to use older types of armour. Usually a ship with no weapons, engines or anything else, named; Conventional armour, Duranium armour, heavy duranium armour, etc.
you reach an armor weight of 0.1 relatively quickly. Any further upgrades are not going to decrease the weight
Mathmatically, I'm assuming one reaches that level at Ceramic Composite (it equals 10).  Let me know if I'm wrong, as aspiring Aurora fighter jocks would like to know.
I would wager Compressed Carbon Armour, it should be .1 in size. Its predecessor, Laminate Composite is .2 in size.  Ceramic Composite is .3 in size.

Difference between Laminate and Ceramic for a shell/non-component/fighter sized ship:  Laminate vs Ceramic
Grade 1 armour is 175 tons versus 180 tons.
Grade 10 armour is 350 tons versus 410 tons.

You can check all this in the Component Summary tab of the Class Design(F5), once you have the appropriate tech level.

It's going to vary based on the size of the ship the armor is being placed on. Level 1 armor on a 31,000-ton freighter is still going to be a substantial weight for several tech levels. But yeah, for smaller fighters I think it's Ceramic Composite, for larger fighters it might be Compressed Carbon. If I have some time later, I'll test and see at what armor grades/hull sizes each level approaches 0.1 weight.
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Bremen

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12953 on: January 11, 2013, 12:09:10 pm »

It's going to vary based on the size of the ship the armor is being placed on. Level 1 armor on a 31,000-ton freighter is still going to be a substantial weight for several tech levels. But yeah, for smaller fighters I think it's Ceramic Composite, for larger fighters it might be Compressed Carbon. If I have some time later, I'll test and see at what armor grades/hull sizes each level approaches 0.1 weight.

I armor my fighters  ;D
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RedKing

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12954 on: January 11, 2013, 12:40:44 pm »

It's going to vary based on the size of the ship the armor is being placed on. Level 1 armor on a 31,000-ton freighter is still going to be a substantial weight for several tech levels. But yeah, for smaller fighters I think it's Ceramic Composite, for larger fighters it might be Compressed Carbon. If I have some time later, I'll test and see at what armor grades/hull sizes each level approaches 0.1 weight.

I armor my fighters  ;D
At higher tech levels, I start to put a layer or two on there. But at the lower levels....yeah, my fighters are flying deathtraps. Level 1 armor, and frequently reactors and engines that don't come close to passing any kind of OSHA standard.  :P

Speed is their armor.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12955 on: January 11, 2013, 01:50:52 pm »

Speed and being tiny.
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Bremen

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12956 on: January 11, 2013, 02:10:00 pm »

Speed and being tiny.

Being tiny helps for missile fighters (which I admit probably don't need armor) but not so much for beam fighters. They're going to be detected before they can enter beam range, and having enough armor to survive some AMMs or a few hits from point defense weapons can be handy.
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RedKing

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12957 on: January 11, 2013, 03:06:41 pm »

Speed and being tiny.

Being tiny helps for missile fighters (which I admit probably don't need armor) but not so much for beam fighters. They're going to be detected before they can enter beam range, and having enough armor to survive some AMMs or a few hits from point defense weapons can be handy.
I still think in a case like that, that exceeding the enemy's tracking speed is still a better defense than an extra couple of points of armor. For one thing, if they exceed it by a large enough margin, they can hang out in proximity to the target and keep firing without much problem. Otherwise, you have to try a boom-and-zoom strategy where they do flybys of the target and only remain in point-defense range for 5-10 seconds (and trying to time it so that window is while the weapons are recharged)
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

Bremen

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12958 on: January 11, 2013, 03:30:22 pm »

Speed and being tiny.

Being tiny helps for missile fighters (which I admit probably don't need armor) but not so much for beam fighters. They're going to be detected before they can enter beam range, and having enough armor to survive some AMMs or a few hits from point defense weapons can be handy.
I still think in a case like that, that exceeding the enemy's tracking speed is still a better defense than an extra couple of points of armor. For one thing, if they exceed it by a large enough margin, they can hang out in proximity to the target and keep firing without much problem. Otherwise, you have to try a boom-and-zoom strategy where they do flybys of the target and only remain in point-defense range for 5-10 seconds (and trying to time it so that window is while the weapons are recharged)

Point defense weapons and AMMs are going to be designed to shoot down missiles, which probably means that they'll have 100% tracking against even the fastest fighters (maybe 70-80% in a best case scenario). What's more, it's not like armoring a fighter has a huge effect on its speed; it might be the difference between 10,000 km/s and 9,500 km/s. Even one or two layers of armor are likely to double survivability, too.

If, I dunno, you were up against a ship with nothing but hull mounted heavy weapons, then speed would be the way to go; hull mounted weapons would have poor tracking, and a heavy beam ship weapon would probably one shot even an armored fighter. Though I will say that even two or three layers of armor are likely to absorb an ASM or two. But generally I find that the biggest threats to beam fighters are, in order:

1) AMMs
2) Turreted Point Defense Weapons
3) ASMs
4) Heavy Beam Weapons

Armor helps against the first 3, whereas maximizing speed helps against the second two.

Also, fighter weapons are usually small, and probably have a 5-10 second recharge; there's no real need to try "dancing" with them, just get as close as possible and stick there.

Edit: Come to think of it, what would people think about holding a sort of tournament with players submitting ship designs?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 03:51:31 pm by Bremen »
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RedKing

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #12959 on: January 11, 2013, 04:52:55 pm »

Heh...see, I tend to design my beam fighters with scaled down big guns (say, 20 or 25cm lasers with a x0.5 reduction in size). That way I can maintain good speed (and fighter-class size), and the low recharge rate means I only need a 0.1 or 0.2 HS reactor.

Trade-off is that I either have to hang around and be a target for a number of combat rounds between shots, or do the boom-and-zoom tactic, using waypoints along the target's expected path. The upside though, is that a squadron volley is punishing. Used it to excellent effect against Swarm recently. Fighters with 10666 km/s and large-calibre lasers, flying just out ahead of the range of their mesons and picking off the drones at their leisure.

I've done plenty of gauss-armed fighters in the past, which feels much more like dogfighting...lots of shots every 5 seconds, but lots of misses. (My Colonial Vipers and Cylon Raiders in the Artemis game are gauss-armed, as were my Comanches and Chippewas in my Terran Alliance fics.)
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.
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