Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Aqizzar]

In trying to answer my own question, the best interpretation I've heard of why the guy didn't do it the easy way (besides my stand-by theory - you have to be an idiot to be a terrorist anyway), is the same reason they find shoulder strains in so many bodies recovered under the Golden Gate.  Namely, the bomber turned chicken.  Suicide is not the "coward's way out" or any kind of easy, it takes some balls to actually kill yourself, at least in way like this guy wanted to that leaves you with plenty of time to think it over.

The theory goes that the guy decided he really didn't want to go out by blowing up a plane with his nuts, so he kind of bungled his detonation in the most easily stopped way possible, so he would survive but still have the honor of looking like he tried.  Maybe not that carefully thought out (for obvious reasons), but subconsciously at least, he may have wanted to be caught.

Aqizzar. You came to the internet and expected anything else?

To put it as simply as possible, this incident, the environment that created it, and especially the breadth of reactions to it, have subtly pushed me over the breaking point.  I just can't take the idiocy anymore.  So in my small way, in my small world, I'm drawing a line in the sand.  I hereby declare it is no longer publicly acceptable to be factually wrong, intellectually dishonest, or knowingly hypocritical.  It is our duty as thinking beings to uphold and cherish reason, ration, doubt, and investigation.  I will no longer tolerate willfully ignorant bullshit, anywhere, anytime.  For the moment anyway, since I'll probably forget I made this post next week.

[Akigagak]

The theory goes that the guy decided he really didn't want to go out by blowing up a plane with his nuts, so he kind of bungled his detonation in the most easily stopped way possible, so he would survive but still have the honor of looking like he tried.  Maybe not that carefully thought out (for obvious reasons), but subconsciously at least, he may have wanted to be caught.

You think he did it as one giant, and retarded, call for attention?

Aqizzar. You came to the internet and expected anything else?

To put it as simply as possible, this incident, the environment that created it, and especially the breadth of reactions to it, have subtly pushed me over the breaking point.  I just can't take the idiocy anymore.  So in my small way, in my small world, I'm drawing a line in the sand.  I hereby declare it is no longer publicly acceptable to be factually wrong, intellectually dishonest, or knowingly hypocritical.  It is our duty as thinking beings to uphold and cherish reason, ration, doubt, and investigation.  I will no longer tolerate willfully ignorant bullshit, anywhere, anytime.  For the moment anyway, since I'll probably forget I made this post next week.

I'd advise staying out of Future of the Fortress then, it's gone to the dogs.

[Aqizzar]

The theory goes that the guy decided he really didn't want to go out by blowing up a plane with his nuts, so he kind of bungled his detonation in the most easily stopped way possible, so he would survive but still have the honor of looking like he tried.  Maybe not that carefully thought out (for obvious reasons), but subconsciously at least, he may have wanted to be caught.

You think he did it as one giant, and retarded, call for attention?

Well, by the end of the flight anyway.  Bear in mind the common description of these guys - disaffected upper-middle-class young men with no strong direction in life and a tenuous grasp of rational causes and consequences.  Sound familiar?  Just to be clear, I'm referring to the statistical typecast of suicidal people here in the first world.

I'd advise staying out of Future of the Fortress then, it's gone to the dogs.

You've seen me in there.  Trying, in vain, to hold back the tide.  Me and Footkerchief's shoulders can only bear so much.

[Neonivek]

This is exactly the kind of ill-conceived knee jerk wingnuttery I didn't want in my thread.  You don't get to just say "the government's out to get ya man". 

What? In no way was this what I am saying.

What I AM saying is that the government wants the general populous to be more accepting of the airports new security measures (The X-ray machines). So they could have fabricated this story as a way to make the populous accept it.

Afterall, he would have been caught were the X-ray machines in place. Evil has nothing to do with it.

It is very conveniant to say the least and there are genuin precident for this sort of stuff happening.

[Aqizzar]

Okay, let's go over this point by point.

A) You believe the government wants the people to be accepting of x-ray machines (as if anyone has a choice or even really notices compared to all the stuff that's there).  Fine, you can contend that.  Do you have a reason why "the government" would want this?  (Besides a definition hunger for power of any form, I'm sure.)

B) Could've could've could've...  You're not actually saying anything.  Commit to a line of a reasoning and back it up.  And no, "convenience" is proof of nothing.  The government could have also wanted velcro, and it was just convenient that we spent billions of dollars going to the Moon in the process.  See how ridiculous that is?

C) "there are genuin precident for this sort of stuff happening."  You have to point to such.  If I don't believe your argument in the first place, I'm not going to do your research for you.  And just to be more of an ass, spelling.

[Neonivek]

A) Fine, I have nothing wrong with your A statement.  As for why the Government would want people to be generally approving of their actions? Who knows? Who knows why the Government IN A DEMOCRACY would care what the people think. Though lets ignore that. It also could be a way to soften the blow the new security measures are creating so that the airports won't lose a lot of money, which of course could mean the government could be completely uninvolved.
B) I am NOT saying anything. Your just attacking my oppinion for some reason on the basis that I am suspicious. I am not trying to prove anything, I am not trying to convince anyone, and I am not trying to enlighten anyone. There shouldn't have been any debate.
C) Well, I really am trying not to give proof because it is too much work (I'd have to remember the name). Yes I am horrible but I don't think it is important enough when I only really wanted to make one post and be done with it and hopes that those who knew the references would give a wink.

[Cthulhu]

If you're going to make a statement that bears heavy connotations (There would be a huge backlash if the government incited a panic to get new security measures in) without any evidence beyond "Trust me, there's evidence," you should expect people to press you for more evidence.

[Neonivek]

If you're going to make a statement that bears heavy connotations (There would be a huge backlash if the government incited a panic to get new security measures in) without any evidence beyond "Trust me, there's evidence," you should expect people to press you for more evidence.

I am just a bit surprised anyone would be interested. I mean by all depictions when someone goes "Conspiracy OMG!" everyone choses to tune out.

[Aqizzar]

Standing by that opinion so much just made me curious.  I'd like to know what supposedly fabricated terror incidents were used to soften the blow of introducing new security measures.  As for why people tune out about the conspiracy thing is, there's only so many times you can here someone cry wolf and be humiliatingly wrong before you stop believing anyone.

And just to be really clear, the parentheses'd statement in A) was supposed to be sarcastic.  I do not enter every discussion assuming the government is automatically trying to become an Orwellian dictatorship.

[Neonivek]

Ohhh the references I was thinking of were a LOT more disconnected then that. It was basically events where the news itself was manipulated by third parties. Which is nothing new.

Unless you mean the Airport thing I spoke of? It isn't substantiated. It always made me laugh because it made perfect sense. How do you find drugs in a fish anyhow?

Also don't exagerate. Manipulating the news is a far cry from controlling it.

[zchris13]

It's unlikely to be the case, to say the least, Neonivek.  Also, I'm pretty sure that the government has fabricated news stories to manipulate the populace before.  I just can't remember the details.

[Aqizzar]

Reporting being manipulated by third parties is, frankly, the essence of organized reporting.  The agency doing the reporting is itself a manipulating agency by definition.  It's the ability to read through that that's important.  And frankly, I still don't understand why you would mention the idea relating to the underwear guy.  I mean, it couldn't be more clearly substantiated by reality.

Unless you mean the Airport thing I spoke of? It isn't substantiated. It always made me laugh because it made perfect sense. How do you find drugs in a fish anyhow?

...Now I definitely want some links or something.  Drugs in fish?  I have to know this story.

[Neonivek]

Now I definitely want some links or something.  Drugs in fish?  I have to know this story

Well finding the odd places airports found drugs is easy enough. (I probably could find the one where they found drugs in a fish). I guess Ill go look for it now.

The story I was refering to was when they brought up all the places airports found drugs and basically said "It is odd that they keep finding them in these places" and said that it seems like they are trying to make it seem like drug trafficers are going to be caught no matter what they do. Which was done for humor.
-Which would be impossible to find since I believe it was televised.

Edit addition: As for Drugs in fish, so far I only found drugs in Pickled Fish. I also found (airport unrelated) of Cocaine put into sharks... I am going to give up. If you want the Cocaine in Sharks article it was pretty much a series of the largest drug smuggling blunders of 2009. One SEEMED to be loading up a helecopter with soo much drugs it crashed but I BARELY read it.

[Arrkhal]

Just as far as depressurization goes anyway, it's way overrated.  Hollywood is populated by people with the IQs of dried trout, not that that should surprise anyone.

There was actually an airliner that managed to land safely after a 10 or 15 foot diameter hole was blown in the hull by a bomb.  A lot of passengers died from the blast, obviously, but the pilot and co-pilot were able to land.  And no one got sucked out, all the bodies were there.

Also, a news conspiracy makes no sense.  Any smart person takes a non-American airline any time they possibly can.  I know a guy who took a business trip to Hong Kong, so he did the smart thing and took an HK airline.  No extra charge for transporting a machine prototype in a crate that weighed a few hundred pounds.  No extra charge for 3 extra carry-on bags.  The in-flight meal was free, and tasted like an ordinary Chinese buffet.  They wheeled the drinks cart past once an hour, and all drinks, including booze, were 100% complementary.  The in-flight movie was free, and the headphones to listen were right there by every seat.  All that for the price of a ticket.  Which was less than the ticket alone on a domestic flight, before they even add on the ridiculous fees.

If you're traveling within the USA, either take a train, or fly to Mexico and back on a Mexican airline (Mexico's airlines are reputed to be quite good).  You would, frankly, have to be a complete moron (or utterly ignorant of your options) to take a domestic airline.  Stories of attempted bombings of trains and Mexican planes would have more of an effect on travel, most likely.

Anyway, I'd write the guy's behavior up to "indecisive idiot" and leave it at that.

[Neonivek]

I'd think the real threat from a bomb has nothing to do with a hole in the side (As a plane can simply fly lower then 10,000 feet)

The threat in my mind, without any research, would be fire.

Well that and of course location, possibly harming the Planes electronics, and people dying.