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Author Topic: I want to talk about the underwear bomber  (Read 7481 times)

Leafsnail

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2010, 01:04:55 pm »

Governments do lie, and they do try to cover things up, but generally they try to suppress stories of embarrassing cockups rather than fabricating terrorist attacks and so on.
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zchris13

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2010, 01:52:40 pm »

Exactly. I'm no conspiracy theorist.
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Solifuge

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2010, 01:54:18 pm »

1) AbdulMutallab, Caring, talented student
2) Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab: From London student to Jihadist
3) Was Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab radicalized in London?

Quote from: The Punch, a Nigerian Newspaper
According to Edmunds, now an educational adviser in Abu Dhabi, the would-be bomber “embodied hope for the future.”
”AbdulMuttalab was developing an international mind and an international heart. He was... maturing into a confident, articulate, compassionate, caring and responsible young man,” he said.
He recalled that AbdulMuttalab took part in a school ceremony, a day after the devastating September 11, 2001 terror attacks on the United States. “The hastily arranged school assembly on September 12 was poignant and emotional. Muslim, Christian and other community leaders shared a platform. We prayed and wept together,” Edmunds said.

People like to think of criminals as 1-Dimensional "Bad Guys", but I'm going to go out on a limb and attempt to empathize with young Abdul Mutallab, and present a theory on what led him to his actions.

He was a young Nigerian student, graduate of a top prep school in Africa, who was sent far away from his family, friends, and home to attend a London University. He was very engaged in his studies (straight As, with prospects to go to Stanford), but was reportedly shy and unsocial with other students, and though his family visited his flat on holidays, the visits were brief. One of the few things that connected him to his roots was the Muslim faith, and though he was separated from the community of worship he grew up with, he frequented an Islamic Forum under the handle Farouk1986, where he talked with with peers, and even helped them through feelings of loneliness and abandonment:

Quote from: Farouk1986, via Gawaher (online Muslim Community)
When I first came here, I thought I was the only lonely soul, but after, I realized that almost every good Muslim gets lonely at some point... This I believe is because really there are many Muslims but most are just Muslims by name who do not practice the deen earnestly, leaving the few good Muslims alone. So it’s a test we have to strive and go through for the sake of Allah.”

Perhaps tapping into the loneliness he had felt, he was approached by those associated with Mullah Mohammad Omar, who is the spiritual leader of the Taliban in Afghanistan. They provided a sense of community, and a "greater cause" to devote himself to, in a time of loneliness and vulnerability. After he graduated, rather than going on to School in California as he had earlier planned, he disappeared to Yemen for training with the Taliban, and subsequently was sent to perform the attack.

However, and I am going on a limb here, I suspect that he may have WANTED to be caught on the plane. Perhaps he had second thoughts about it, or perhaps he had been going along with the pressures of his peers, and the religious authority of his newfound Mullah... but when the moment came and he had the option to carry it out in secrecy, he chose not to.

P.S. An interesting side note: he's currently in a prison about 15 minutes from my house. I wanted to drop by and perhaps provide an ear to listen, but I don't know how prison systems and visitations work.
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Aqizzar

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #63 on: January 10, 2010, 02:13:08 pm »

P.S. An interesting side note: he's currently in a prison about 15 minutes from my house. I wanted to drop by and perhaps provide an ear to listen, but I don't know how prison systems and visitations work.

I have a sneaking suspicion he's not getting visitation rights for a while.  After he's convicted though (not much doubt on that) you could probably write letters though.


Governments do lie, and they do try to cover things up, but generally they try to suppress stories of embarrassing cockups rather than fabricating terrorist attacks and so on.

This is kinda my point, if I ever had one.  The 2001 Anthrax guys were an excellent example.  It would take a while to go into, but the important thing is that the FBI did everything it could to keep anyone from learning too much about the story, and tried to wrap up the conclusion with as few suspects as possible.  Not because they were in any way complicit with the event, but because they were trying to cover up their own gross incompetence and negligence in inadvertently allowing it to happen in the first place.
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Jude

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #64 on: January 10, 2010, 02:20:43 pm »

Yeah, I guarantee they won't let you in.

Plus if people hear you go to talk to him, not only will you end up on every FBI watch list ever, everybody will also call you a terrorist sympathizer

Also yeah, he's human, but he also was planning to blow up a plane full of hundreds of people. Like I'm saying in some other thread...personal responsibility has to be put somewhere no matter what circumstances led to a person doing something
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DJ

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #65 on: January 10, 2010, 03:21:39 pm »

OK, I think I have a good example of a government orchestrating bad stuff to further it's agenda: The Gleiwitz incident

If that's too recent for you, look up terrorist attacks done by Italian right posing as Italian left because they were about to lose election sometime in 1970's. But I guess it doesn't really count because CIA was the real culprit, not the Italian government.
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Luke_Prowler

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #66 on: January 10, 2010, 04:24:01 pm »

Can we drop the whole "The government is out to get us" crap? all conspiracy theory fall through on the mere fact that such plans involving so many people always fail.
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Neonivek

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2010, 04:37:24 pm »

Though it isn't really the things people do in secret that I am so much concerned about as you cannot really find out (unless of course it is "Secret" by people denying despite the evidence). It is the things people do out in the open, admit they were wrong later, and find that no one cares that drives me nuts.

Lets just say that public responsibility is an oxymoron.

DANG I need my laptop... It has one great example.

The number of people required for a functional conspiracy is 1.
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Aqizzar

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2010, 04:51:45 pm »

The number of people required for a functional conspiracy is 1.

I think a one man conspiracy is just a secret.  Especially by the legal definition, conspiracy means multiple people plotting something.

Anyway.  I have never said, never claimed, never argued, that governments don't don't do bad things in secret.  Of course they do.  When you want to do something will be mad at you about, you try to make sure no one knows, and you're probably going to fail at that.  I'm as familiar with the history of South America as anyone.  What I'm saying is, you just can't bark out "it's a conspiracy" as the first, last, and only answer to anything.  It's a lazy intellectual crutch to say that anytime something bad happens, it's because of some shadowy organization that's definitionally hungry for non-specific power over people and the desire to do general evil.

But forget all that.  Bomb in a guy's underwear.  New question - If a guy hides a bomb in shoes, that means everyone getting on a plane has to take off their shoes for the rest of time.  If some guys cook up a boneheaded, impossible plot to blow up an airplane with a nebulous liquid explosive, everyone getting on a plane has to surrender all liquids for the rest of time.

If a guy hides a bomb in his underwear, does everyone getting on an plane have to take of their pants for the rest of time?  No, we roll out some fancy x-ray machines that are programmed to blur people's crotches anyway, and still can't be used in Britain because of child pornography laws.  Does this mean, shock and amazement, that surrendering the shoes and outside drinks and nailclippers was a fucking bogus solution all along?  I can't wait for the next time Janet Napolitano has to face down Bill Maher.
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Willfor

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2010, 05:05:54 pm »

The number of people required for a functional conspiracy is 1.

I think a one man conspiracy is just a secret.  Especially by the legal definition, conspiracy means multiple people plotting something.
If Law & Order has taught me anything about your justice system it's that you only have to find the right judge...
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Neonivek

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #70 on: January 10, 2010, 05:06:07 pm »

No I think what it means is that people will need to walk into airports naked while having enemas and stomach pumps.

The airport personel will need to be psychic pure hearted female virgins trained in all forms of firearms, bomb disarming, and martial arts.

Each passanger will be put into suspended animation while in flight and luggage will be transported via crane and helecopter to its destination.
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ToonyMan

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #71 on: January 10, 2010, 05:06:45 pm »

The number of people required for a functional conspiracy is 1.

I think a one man conspiracy is just a secret.  Especially by the legal definition, conspiracy means multiple people plotting something.
If Law & Order has taught me anything about your justice system it's that you only have to find the right judge...

Law & Order has taught me to use my fists during interrogations instead of petty words.
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WorkerDrone

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #72 on: January 10, 2010, 05:09:12 pm »

...What other way is there to interrogate someone?
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Neonivek

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #73 on: January 10, 2010, 05:10:33 pm »

Yeah a lot of the stuff they pull on Law and Order could easily get someone off.

Though to admit this sort of junk happens in real life as well. That is one of the reasons why some states require by law that interrogations need to be videotaped.
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Cheddarius

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Re: I want to talk about the underwear bomber
« Reply #74 on: January 10, 2010, 05:11:03 pm »

Yeah a lot of the stuff they pull on Law and Order could easily get someone off.

eeeeeeeeeew

EDIT: I regret this
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