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[aha]

I am constantly following dev blog and I noticed this line in 23.01.08 post:

Members of the Doctrine of Devils worshipped Tabmik Frothedbloat the Putrid Sucker (disease) in the Ungodly Silty Shrine.

I understand that the name of the god describes his actions and nature, but shouldn't it be in-character? Surely, when kobolds worship a certain deity who commands them sacrifice babies every other day, they don't see this act as evil themselves. Human observer might call their god evil, but actual worshippers obiously would not.

[Nite/m4re]

Personally, I like them this way.

[sorbius]

The dev log is about as OOC as you can get.  I would prefer Toady NOT RP in his dev posts.

EDIT: also, when did he say anything about this being evil?  The way it's worded it's completely neutral (just the facts)

[ January 25, 2008: Message edited by: sorbius ]

[Sean Mirrsen]

There's two ways relative perception works. It is based on how do evil people acknowledge evil. In one case the people call it good, relative to how it affects them. In the other, they acknowledge evil as evil - evil to the good, thus good for them. For gameplay's sake, I think the second case would work better, the first way would cause confusion.

While you discovering a dark goblin citadel and finding a "Kind Lovely High-Temple of Flowers" is reasonably fun, the fact that "Kind" and "Lovely" are evil-relative terms, and that "Flowers" refers to a particular man-eating variety, would not be very easily presented to the player, and thus the goblins' dark style is somewhat compromised.

[Red Jackard]

it is not unfeasible for characters to worship evil gods for various reasons, though the post below me does have a little merit.

still, i prefer that dev notes remain as they are - objective.

[ January 25, 2008: Message edited by: Red Jackard ]

[aha]

You are going from one extreme to another. What about something rather neutral - like Mighty Granthack (known to goblins) there could be additional entry that elves call this particular god Midnight Baby Snatcher

[sorbius]

Everything else in the game is presented in this history book style, just the details of what happened, no oppinions.  Allowing the player to decide if it's 'good' or 'evil'.

also /agree with Sean Mirrsen

[sorbius]

a.k.a's for gods would be cool.

[ January 25, 2008: Message edited by: sorbius ]

[Cosmonot]

Subtlety has not yet been implemented. Be patient.

[Torak]

Kobold: [EVIL].

[Aquillion]

quote:Originally posted by aha:
<STRONG>I am constantly following dev blog and I noticed this line in 23.01.08 post:

Members of the Doctrine of Devils worshipped Tabmik Frothedbloat the Putrid Sucker (disease) in the Ungodly Silty Shrine.

I understand that the name of the god describes his actions and nature, but shouldn't it be in-character? Surely, when kobolds worship a certain deity who commands them sacrifice babies every other day, they don't see this act as evil themselves. Human observer might call their god evil, but actual worshippers obiously would not.</STRONG>

What part of that is evil?  Kobolds like devils.  They think frothy bloat sounds good, and putrid sucker diseases are just part of their life...  and it is an ungodly silty shrine.  It's just really silty.

Kobolds use nasty words a lot and have a crude sense of humor, but nothing in that line automatically means 'evil'.  In fact, you are the one applying your standards of good and evil to the kobolds!

[Alfador]

quote:Originally posted by Aquillion:
<STRONG>What part of that is evil?  Kobolds like devils.  They think frothy bloat sounds good, and putrid sucker diseases are just part of their life...  and it is an ungodly silty shrine.  It's just really silty.

Kobolds use nasty words a lot and have a crude sense of humor, but nothing in that line automatically means 'evil'.  In fact, you are the one applying your standards of good and evil to the kobolds!</STRONG>

Agreed! Heck, if elves worshipped gods instead of a force of nature, we'd probably be seeing something like "Circleturned, god of Birth and Death." Paradox? No, nature!

[Armok]

The spinning !!carp!! strikes Torak in the head!  :mad:

quote: What part of that is evil? Kobolds like devils. They think frothy bloat sounds good, and putrid sucker diseases are just part of their life... and it is an ungodly silty shrine. It's just really silty.

Kobolds use nasty words a lot and have a crude sense of humor, but nothing in that line automatically means 'evil'. In fact, you are the one applying your standards of good and evil to the kobolds!
.........................................
Agreed! Heck, if elves worshipped gods instead of a force of nature, we'd probably be seeing something like "Circleturned, god of Birth and Death." Paradox? No, nature!

Seconded!

[Cosmonot]

This is a fantasy universe. Moral relativism does not work. Kobolds are evil. They steal your children. Get over it.

[aha]

I am raising and butchering cows in my fortress. I am taking away mommies and daddies of little calves. Am I evil?

Kobolds steal dwarven and human children but raise their own (otherwise they won't have much of society). Are they evil in their own sense?