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Author Topic: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns  (Read 2861 times)

assimilateur

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entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« on: January 07, 2010, 02:16:39 pm »
1. I've read conflicting opinions on whether or not sieges can be actually endless. When I read about them being liable to end, I don't remember anyone giving any convincing reasoning on why this should be so, especially since it was also claimed (and my experience seems to confirm this), that the vast majority of ambushers and siegers get spawned on the spot, as opposed to be taken out of accounted for populations.

2.a. Is it known that persons will voluntarily settle in foreign, and generally hostile (talking about the red dash status, as opposed to "officially" declared war) during worldgen? I just saw a dwarf living in a giant town (I modded the latter, as well as cyclopes and minotaurs to form civilizations). He wasn't a prisoner, and I don't see how he could have been kidnapped since I didn't give the baby snatcher tag to any civ.

2.b. If I retire my cyclops adventurer in a foreign entity (as I seem to have... antagonized my home civ), can I expect to see him in a siege as one of the rare, named* "ringleaders", as I like to call them?


* Explanation: as I have removed the can_speak tag off any civilization I want to besiege me (this is done to ensure hostility), most attackers are simply called goblin maceman, kobold bowman, etc.
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Martin

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Re: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2010, 02:33:28 pm »
I've managed to, as far as I can tell, wipe out goblins by killing their leaders when they come during sieges.

But in 60 years of non-stop sieges by Orcs at Lashedwines, Morul has yet to put a dent in their leadership. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 2400 orcs have died sieging the fortress and they keep coming, and I don't recall seeing any of their leaders arrive.
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assimilateur

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Re: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2010, 02:46:15 pm »
OK, thanks for the input. Could you export your population and site data and either host it somewhere or send it to me via email? Spoilering it here might work as well.
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Cody1750

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Re: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2010, 03:02:41 pm »
If you want them to have names, try putting the can speak tag back in after word gen.  It should give them names.

I haven't had the seiges end though so I have no clue about them.
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Martin

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Re: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2010, 03:19:43 pm »
I'll be uploading the whole fortress before long. Just watch the Morul thread and you can grab it and get anything you need.
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Nobbins

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Re: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2010, 03:42:43 pm »
This has to be the best topic ever.

I like the idea of an ice tunnel as the only entrance to a tower in the middle of the lake. And the tower would be made out of ice, and have 100% solid walls. Adventurers would come up and be like "How in the hell?"
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assimilateur

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Re: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2010, 03:57:29 pm »
Quote from: Cody1750 on January 07, 2010, 03:02:41 pm
If you want them to have names, try putting the can speak tag back in after word gen.  It should give them names.

I haven't had the seiges end though so I have no clue about them.

I don't care too much for their names, I'm interested in whether my sieges will last forever. In fact, I think unnamed invaders are arguably more realistic. I mean, how would you know the names of every hostile goblin or human who entered your area? It's not like they're wearing name tags. "Hi, I'm Smunstu Ngukakxom. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

Quote from: Martin on January 07, 2010, 03:19:43 pm
I'll be uploading the whole fortress before long. Just watch the Morul thread and you can grab it and get anything you need.

How long is "before long"? I'll be starting another fort in as little as 12 hours, and could use your data for before I gen another world, so I can mod my invaders accordingly. I don't mean to impose, but it would be a great help if I could see your population data and the raws of your orcs ASAP. Exporting those and copying them here inside a spoiler tag should take not much longer than it took to type up your last response.
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Martin

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Re: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2010, 04:09:13 pm »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Civs 83 and 92 are the ones that appear to be sieging me. No more than 300 orcs listed there, yet Morul has almost 1600 orc kills to his name so far. Not sure where they're all coming from.

The orc raws are the standard one from Orc mod. I've only modified the size and damblock from time to time after worldgen.

I removed Gobbos from this world so that ambushers wouldn't undermine the effort.
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assimilateur

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Re: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2010, 04:15:25 pm »
OK, thanks, mate. Looks like the hypothesis I mentioned in my first post, namely that most attackers got spawned out of thin air, does hold true.
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Quietust

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Re: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2010, 04:26:45 pm »
One of my previous fortresses (Wasprag) was made in a Pocket world where the Goblin civilization was led by normal goblins rather than by a Demon. Both the Local Leader and Ruler led siege squads fairly early on and were both dropped into my "moat" (the magma pipe) before the fort's 10th year, at which point the (c)iv screen stated that the Goblin civ had no important leaders. Despite this, sieges continued to arrive (and in larger numbers) well into the fort's 45th year, which is when I filed it away.
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assimilateur

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Re: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2010, 04:45:27 pm »
Thanks for the heads up, sounds promising. You didn't mod your goblins by any chance?
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Grendus

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Re: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2010, 10:00:06 pm »
I have never "wiped out" a civ, but killing their leadership does reduce the sieges for a time. Sometimes their only leadership is a pair of local leaders, other times they have more high priests than they have gods, but if you kill them all, they become discouraged for a few years, which is nice.
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assimilateur

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Re: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2010, 10:09:49 pm »
Quote from: Grendus on January 07, 2010, 10:00:06 pm
which is nice.

I guess it is, but can I be sure that they'll resume attacking after a while?
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darkflagrance

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Re: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2010, 11:42:56 pm »
Quote from: assimilateur on January 07, 2010, 10:09:49 pm
Quote from: Grendus on January 07, 2010, 10:00:06 pm
which is nice.

I guess it is, but can I be sure that they'll resume attacking after a while?

Oh yes. Treants with no notable leaders are the most likely civ to siege my fort each year.
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Tired of going decades without goblin sieges? Try The Fortress Defense Mod

assimilateur

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Re: entity populations vs length of sieges; also, settling in foreign towns
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2010, 11:46:42 pm »
That's neat. How do I make my civs not get leaders then?
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