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[webadict]

YoU WaNt oDd? I GiVe yOu oDd> HoW Do yOu lIkE Me nOw?

Smarter? E=mc².

But seriously, we all know I'm no asset to the town while living.

You could probably try picking apart people's arguments. Or try thinking like other people.

[dakarian]

I'm sorry, my mistake. The whole thing is rather passive. You don't seem to care enough about what you're talking about, you know? Where's the feeling! You've got a stand going but you're not putting forth much of an effort, dakarian.

Meh to that.  That was a full on analysis stating directly what he's done that shows him as scum.  As it stands, if he can't answer to those charges then I'll be done with him.


@Exkirby

If you want to be 'in' mind going after someone?  Go attack someone instead of sitting there waiting for others to do your job.

For example: who do you feel is most scummy at the moment (and note, the only post that's really long is my latest WOT so you shouldn't have a problem reading everything else)

[ExKirby]

Dak, web's was pretty damn long as well.

Soli... I'm likely to be wrong, but Soli hasn't defended very well-he/she reminds me of myself back when I was a rookie. Probably doesn't know how to defend. But looking at the quote in web's wall, there is a bit of failure in there... No townie blames another townie for their mistakes. I think. ...I am making sense, right?

[Vector]

YoU WaNt oDd? I GiVe yOu oDd> HoW Do yOu lIkE Me nOw?

Smarter? E=mc².

But seriously, we all know I'm no asset to the town while living.

1. I cannot call mutations of capitalization particularly unusual.  The hint here is that being stupidly flamboyant should not be the goal.  There is a better way to do things.

2. The ability to regurgitate equations is not particularly noteworthy, no matter how deep a truth they tell.  It is the comprehension--why this equation?  Why is this truth is important?  How can we step from here to deeper truths?  that encompasses true intelligence.

Incidentally, I know next to nothing about physics, so don't feel perturbed.

3. In more seriousness, what we know is that if you lost that attitude of self-deprecation, you would do far better.  Though you may think you're ingratiating yourself to us, it's said that the greatest teller of charisma is self-confidence (this is why everyone still puts up with Webadict).  So, the combination of self-confidence and contemplation within the game--and flexibility outside of it--should help you a lot.

We've all been terrible scum-hunters, Dakarian included (hah.  I don't mention myself because I'm still pretty bad.).  The difference comes in what you choose to do about it.

Soli... I'm likely to be wrong, but Soli hasn't defended very well-he/she reminds me of myself back when I was a rookie. Probably doesn't know how to defend. But looking at the quote in web's wall, there is a bit of failure in there... No townie blames another townie for their mistakes. I think. ...I am making sense, right?

Yup, makes lots of sense =)

[Solifuge]

Danke, ExKirby, but I wouldn't call myself a Rookie. Unconventional in methodology, perhaps, but not a Rookie.

Also, what exactly  "should" I be defending against? I'm still okay with sacrificing me, since I already revealed my hand. Moreover, does someone see more substance to Webs post? I didn't, so much as a lot of RAEG with little substance. Same goes for a lot of what's being said here. Some canny manipulative folk have been prodding just enough to get a fight brewing. to what end, I'unno.

*RABID WITCHUNTING ESSAY*

Speaking of which, I apparently touched a nerve there. Easy tiger.

Aside from the fact that you've gotten less and less sensible, and slightly more rabid with every post, you simultaneously condemned my plan, and condemned not following the plan. (Lol what?)

Specifically, you ignored how much it helps the Spaniard. You also seem convinced that I don't want us to lynch someone, when I have already cast my vote against Neruz. I am advocating that we put killing in the town's hand, rather than practice the long and drawn out suicide of all our townsfolk.

Try to make some calm sense next time, and not froth all over the keyboard.

At any rate, Neruz is skipping around like a rabid lynch-weasle, while you are still analyzing and making valid statements. Even if you are eeking higher on the scum radar, your input is valuable.

Besides, one can find as much within a lie as they can in a truth. Critical thinking; it works on people too. :3

BRB. Going to suck a delicious lemon.

[Neruz]

I'm afraid Dakarian that i only got to the first paragraph of your post before i discovered a blatant lie and what is probably a deliberate misrepresentation, so i apologize, cause i stopped right there. If the rest of your post is different (which i doubt, since webadict seems unimpressed with it as well) then i'll go back and read it.

"Let me try to back away from my claim since I KNOW it was too weak to stand.  Oh, and also let me avoid making a scumtell so I can try to look pro-town doing it."

Are you advocating that, instead of going after people we believe are scum, we should wish wash around just to avoid causing a scene?

Btw, the other person you, as scum, argued with was Forsaken.  Forsaken ended up not only being town but being the ONLY person who, if the town followed him, would've just about tore us apart since you were the one person we did NOT want to have killed.

But no, town shouldn't be trying to scumhunt.  Forsaken should've ignored you like everyone else and go lynch Org out of policy instead.

Go back and re-read the post my good friend. I said town shouldn't overdo the tunneling on one person, and that when two people end up at cross purposes they should not let an argument escalate uncontrollably until it degenerates into an internet shouting match (as such arguments invariably do). That was forsaken's error, he followed me and escalated the argument beyond all hope or reason, resulting in everyone ignoring both of us.


However, that there is a solid scum tell. I've never yet played a game where a town player has so badly misrepresented an argument. Not only did you twist words there, but you fabricated words too, and the little thing with the quote marks was clever, it makes it look like i said that and you're quoting me, when in fact it is completely bullshit.

I stand by my first two votes being random and having no real meaning behind them other than entertainment value. You can ask me as often as you like, i will continue to stand by that.


Interesting that Solifuge apparantly has an issue with webadict, but chooses to leap to add his vote to the wagon forming on me, instead of voting for webadict. Aren't easy lynches fun Solifuge?

[dakarian]

Dak, web's was pretty damn long as well.

Mostly because he quoted me, but I get the point

Soli... I'm likely to be wrong, but Soli hasn't defended very well-he/she reminds me of myself back when I was a rookie. Probably doesn't know how to defend. But looking at the quote in web's wall, there is a bit of failure in there... No townie blames another townie for their mistakes. I think. ...I am making sense, right?

1. Day 1 no worries if you are wrong: there's little information at the moment.  However, by making attacks like that you'll do exactly what is truly needed: drawing people out, making them speak out more, and gathering the information that will be useful later on. 

2. When I say "you need ot get out there and attack"  yes.. THAT quoted is what I'm talking about.  If there's any blahness about it, it's the worry.  you CAN worry in your head about things, but you leave out the worry when you write.  In your head, you say "Well, that guy is passive, but I don't know.".. in text you write. "That's passive, you lousy scum!"

Thus, you can reword your writing slightly to get that effect like this:

"Soli hasn't defended very well-he/she reminds me of myself back when I was a rookie. Probably doesn't know how to defend. But looking at the quote in web's wall, there is a bit of failure in there... No townie blames another townie for their mistakes."

Boom.. without the "oh I don't know" at the beginning and ending, you go from a very passive (and weak) post to a pretty decent attack.  Normally, you'd also put a vote in but if you dislike adding to the bandwagon until you're more sure then a Blue-colored FOS will do.

From here you keep pushing.  Keep attacking until you can say one of three things:

"Ok, that makes sense.  yah, I can't see them as scum after that."

or

"I still don't like them, but they answered the argument, and I don't have anything else to add."

or

"OMG!  They really ARE scum!"

The first means it's time to pull back and go after someone else. If the second, put them on standby.. leave them alone but watch them as they post against other people and go to them later.  If the third.. do WHATEVER IT TAKES to see them DEAD! 

And that, is scumhunting.

[JaaSwb]

I really should stop immediately agreeing with everything I read, it's silly.

That's not quite right Org, I voted Dakarian early on for criticizing Zai for lurker-hunting.  JaaSwb noticed, heh.

I'm sorry I don't have more to offer here.  The amount of posts is overwhelming, and I'm feeling useless based on BM8.

I feel lost not knowing how many of each profession there are.  If we did know, I think mass-claim would be a good strategy since the priests+lynch could kill off all the "peasants" including any lying spaniards before the spaniards could get NK them off.  But without knowing anything useful with certainty, I'm leaving the initial scum-hunting to the experts.  For example, I have no idea whether Dakarian is acting like himself or not.  When scum start making mistakes I'll jump on that.

Now, I'm not exactly talking from experience here, but I think no-one is truly useless as long as they keep talking. Think something isn't quite right? Speak up! Whether the person is town or scum, you get information out of it, and that is exactly what town is always most in need of. So stop lurking and get hunting

PPE: Ninja'd by dakarian, who of course puts it better than I could

Oh no, i'm fine with arguing with him, i'm just not going to let it escalate out of control like i did with forsaken in P12. Escalating arguments are a terrible thing, as it makes all the other players tired of it, so they start ignoring both parties, which is exactly what the scum want.

"Let me try to back away from my claim since I KNOW it was too weak to stand.  Oh, and also let me avoid making a scumtell so I can try to look pro-town doing it."

Are you advocating that, instead of going after people we believe are scum, we should wish wash around just to avoid causing a scene?

No need to put two passive points in a row.

<Snipped dak's WOT on Neruz - JaaSwb>

I'm sorry, my mistake. The whole thing is rather passive. You don't seem to care enough about what you're talking about, you know? Where's the feeling! You've got a stand going but you're not putting forth much of an effort, dakarian.

Let's see. dakarian points out the many scumtells Neruz dropped today, in detail, and calls him scum for it, and the best you can think of to criticise him is that he's not putting enough feeling into it? How is this suspicious? Does it conflict with his normal behaviour in any way?

It's highly dangerous, and benefits the Spaniards more than the Aztec. Since you are generally very perceptive about this sort of thing, Web, I tend to suspect you might have realized that this benefits the Spaniards, and thus are trying to keep it as our plan of attack.

Care to point out where webadict defended the sacrifice of townies? I think I may have missed it.


Unvote Rolan7.

Neruz definitely looks very scummy. I'd hate to bandwagon, but I really have nothing to add to the evidence already provided.

webadict seems rather eager to defend Neruz. You claim the attacks against him are lacking in emotion, but I can't see how that detracts from them.

[webadict]

Danke, ExKirby, but I wouldn't call myself a Rookie. Unconventional in methodology, perhaps, but not a Rookie.

Also, what exactly  "should" I be defending against? I'm still okay with sacrificing me, since I already revealed my hand. Moreover, does someone see more substance to Webs post? I didn't, so much as a lot of RAEG with little substance. Same goes for a lot of what's being said here. Some canny manipulative folk have been prodding just enough to get a fight brewing. to what end, I'unno.

*RABID WITCHUNTING ESSAY*

Speaking of which, I apparently touched a nerve there. Easy tiger.

Seriously? There's so much wrong here that it's disgusting. Let's start, shall we:

Aside from the fact that you've gotten less and less sensible, and slightly more rabid with every post, you simultaneously condemned my plan, and condemned not following the plan. (Lol what?)

One, I never suggested follower your plan. I'm saying your plan sucks lemons, and has always sucked lemons, and that you actually pinned the sucking of lemons upon me. I gave a plan that I would have made, as opposed to yours. I'm glad you're finally taking credit for your plan though. It's nice knowing that whole blame game never worked out for you.

In fact, I don't know what you're reading. Do you find me bloodthirsty? I'm saying that your plan sucks. It's actually better for people to sacrifice the same person. Your plan sucks because it tells all the non power roles to claim, leaving only the power roles left. That's why you're a moron.

Specifically, you ignored how much it helps the Spaniard. You also seem convinced that I don't want us to lynch someone, when I have already cast my vote against Neruz. I am advocating that we put killing in the town's hand, rather than practice the long and drawn out suicide of all our townsfolk.

You, in fact, were totally for a No Lynch before. Just because you've changed now does not mean that it goes away. I'm glad you're voting for Neruz. He seems like the easy lynch. You're being a moron and suggesting that all the non-power roles claim. In fact, we only need one person to claim, if you're going to do that. We only need one, because everyone would kill the leftover non-power roles.

Try to make some calm sense next time, and not froth all over the keyboard.

At any rate, Neruz is skipping around like a rabid lynch-weasle, while you are still analyzing and making valid statements. Even if you are eeking higher on the scum radar, your input is valuable.

Besides, one can find as much within a lie as they can in a truth. Critical thinking; it works on people too. :3

BRB. Going to suck a delicious lemon.

Right. What do you have on Neruz? Show me. Don't hit and run. You're pretty scared yourself if you're too busy to come up with real evidence on me. You're best evidence against me is that I was for a plan that never was mine, and that I'm actually advocating for, get this, killing people. Yeah, that happens in this game. We try to kill them bad folk we likes to call Maf-ya.

Are you actually making an argument? You're just spouting nonsense.

[Neruz]

Neruz definitely looks very scummy. I'd hate to bandwagon, but I really have nothing to add to the evidence already provided.

That's called bandwagoning you idiot. Saying that you hate to do it, and then doing it, in no way reduces the scumminess of the action.

[Solifuge]

Interesting that Solifuge apparantly has an issue with webadict, but chooses to leap to add his vote to the wagon forming on me, instead of voting for webadict. Aren't easy lynches fun Solifuge?

Almost as fun as using selective reading/representation of arguments (read: falsifying) to cast suspicion. Before you claim to understand someone's argument and demand that others read everything you have to say, why not read what they've written first?

Also, your blind trust of Webadict doesn't do much to encourage me.

In fact, I don't really like Rooser, Webadict or Neruz at this point. Zai has been lurking, along with Panda just enough to pop in and out for a lynch or FoS, without providing content, RedWarrior0 hasn't been by to say a peep so we've got nothing there, and the only thing going on are two camps rapidly drawing up battle-lines: the Webadict/Neruz camp, and the Solifuge/Dakarian camp.

Need I say it again; I'm quite content with being sacrificed tonight, especially if it gives Priests a measure of protection, but sacrificing self-claimed powerless Aztecs is a TERRIBLE long term strategy. I admit that, being the original proposer of the idea.

It is better to have the Priests take a stab at someone scummy, and hope they hit the mark. Otherwise, we will literally guarantee that we kill ourselves, with no chance of taking scum down with us.

THAT is my argument. My suspicion is that you rabid lynch-weasels (Webadict and Neruz, who together have changed their lynch votes at a whim close to 10 times.) are setting off the Scum Radar like no other.

We need to lynch someone, and Priests need to take a stab at sacrificing scummy folk. I concede that that includes me, and indeed offer myself for the purpose. Just somebody put Neruz or Webadict down when I role-flip, please.

[dakarian]

@ Neruz

Your quote in full:

I'm not going to play the little argument tunnelvision game with you dak. I can see where this is going, and i'm going to pull out now. It's an excellent tactic to initiate while scum, but i'd be an idiot to engage in over the top arguments while town.

Oh, and dak, someone has caught my eye in the thread; you.

The problem I have with it is this: if you aren't going to get into a deep argument with me then what ARE you going to do?  you NEED to debate my points and bring up points of your own in order to read me.  Otherwise, you're just voting for me without finding out what I am.  I take note that for all of your saying that you'll avoid "over the top arguments" that you decided to continue anyway.  That's because, in the end, you much scumhunt.

Sidenote 1: The Day 1 BIG arguments in Paranormal 12 led to forsaken determining that you are scum: an idea he held until the end of the game.  If anything, the biggest mistake was on the town putting both of you to the backburner "we'll deal with the situation later". 

Sidenote 2: the quotation marks aren't your words but similar to aka.  In long terms it's "This is what I believe you really mean."  It's an accusation of your motive, not a quote on your post.  Your ACTUAL words are the quotes above.  What I believe accuse you of is the 'quotation marks' below it.

So yes, I know you SAID that you don't want to wear down the town with a big argument.  However, I believe you said it just to try to escape the argument and go after someone easier (like, say, Solifuge).


Btw, deciding to just drop most of my argument is cute, but Dodging the Question.  Instead of trying to misread my argument, how about actually addressing them?

[Org]

Vote Count
Vector-
Zai-Dak
Neruz-Vector
Pandar-
Rooster-
Dakarian-Zai, Neruz, Rolan
Rolan-
Solifuge-magma, pandar
RedWarrior-Webadict
ExKirby-Rooster
JaaSwB-
MagmaDeath-
Webadict-
No vote-Solifuge

Should be right.
I ignored everyone who DIDNT SAY UNVOTE PERSON, VOTE BLAH
I just got back. I am sending a Prod to Red.

[Neruz]

Actually i'm more than a little surprised that webadict is currently lining up with me. Normally he and i end up somewhat at odds. If it wasn't for the fact that web looks like he's playing his usual crazy town game i would be rather concerned.

[dakarian]

Meh, didn't know you needed it THAT specifically.

Unvote Zai
Vote Neruz