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[Sir Andrew Ryan Farnsley]

Alrighty mates, I'm here to call shenanigans... The embark menu might want to be rechecked. Before I go any farther into this I'm only using one modded in metal of my own creation and the Mayday graphics upgrade.

I modded in a new type of metal that is 10% weaker than iron. I went and fired up DF and tried to embark. I looked at my stuffs and noticed that my anvil made from the new metal (micraz) was actually cheaper than the 1000 point iron anvil. It only cost me 900. I said sweet and began to spend my remaining 200 points. I thought to myself later that since my metal is so common (smelted from microcline) I should lower the price and effectiveness some more. I delete my fort and embarked a again, sweet the price went down at the embark menu again, this time at 700. I went on to spend my remaining... 200 points? Wait what?

Try this yourself. Mod in a metal that is cheaper than iron that you can make an anvil out of. The game will give you the cheapest anvil it can, and no sort of retribution for it being cheaper. You still get only 200 extra points.

Now some of you may be saying "It keeps it balanced" Yeah I don't think so... If I take a hit on quality and still get the same number of points as the dude who didn't, why take it at all?

My little rant is over, just pointing something out that should maybe be fixed in the next version. Use a standard number of points for the embark screen or something. That's all folks... If I missed something or if there's a easy way to change the embark points to be a set standard number let me know. 

[FluffyToast J]

Indeed. The same works the opposite way: Make all the anvil-able metals extremely expensive, and have a billion points to spend if you get rid of the anvil.

Its just the way the embark screen works. You get 200 free points no matter what. Not sure if I'd call it a bug, but hey.

[CobaltKobold]

Lemme find where I put that...

Elf Game and Theory: Embark Screen
You'll need/probably want to cheat at the embarking screen. Of course, in this case cheating isn't REALLY cheating, because even if you happen to luck out and your pre-selected starting equipment includes 40 barrels of sunshine, without the addition of steel axes or an iron anvil, elves are usually 1500+ points short of what dwarves get and only slightly less short of what humans would get, too. The point average for the other races seems to clock in around 2060 (someone else might be able to confirm/correct this).

Dwarfs: standard. Iron anvil, two copper picks, two steel battle axes. X drink Y food Z seeds. 200 spare points beyond that.

I figured (by vanilla-embarking each type) that the way it does it is, it picks worst (cheapest) anvil, best axes, worst (cheapest) diggers, random drinks, random food, random seeds. Then it tacks on 200 points.
So, humans are a bit down (can farm, can brew, can most all but make steel: so, drop points for iron axes instead of steel (400?)). Be aware that non-1h axes do not seem to play nice with woodcutters.
Goblins are a bit down from that again (don't get plants/seeds/drinks, but do get iron still).
Elves, without capacity to work metal at all, get shafted: no anvil, axes, picks. Which is, y'know, 1640 points they don't get.
Kobolds...I don't remember. I think they'd get more points than elves though, as they get metalworking in some capacity...but might be stuck with copper axes if MINOR_METALS is functioning that far.

Humans are simple to play. Goblins slightly less so (carnivores). Elves get so few available jobs you need to screw with stuff.

edit: This is with just adding CIV_CONTROLLABLE to e'eryone, understand.
edit2: Dwarfs clock in at 2060 normally:
2 picks (worst) 2 axes (best/only) 1 anvil (worst), 3 drinks, 20 ea.  2 seeds, 5 ea. 15 of a (cheap) meat, and 15 of an edible-raw plant.

Not sure on selection criteria for anything but the meat (it's always a 2-value, but can be meat or cleaned fish) and metal objects.

Because the drinks available to the dwarves are all equal in value, as are seeds, and there's only one edible plant.

[Sir Andrew Ryan Farnsley]

I guess what I'm saying here is that perhaps it should be looked at? Give them a standard number of embark points so that you can take a hit on quality of some of your items in exchange for getting those points back. I think it's only fair that if I wanted to trade all my items in for lower quality ones then shouldn't I get some sort of retribution? It makes little sense that it would start you off with the weakest possible items. Also anybody else notice that you are only allowed steel axes in the beginning? Another thing I was curious on because I've always wanted to trade in a steel ax for something cheaper. Also it doesn't look like you can get steel picks in the beginning either. There's just some flaws in the embark menu.

[smjjames]

Also it doesn't look like you can get steel picks in the beginning either. There's just some flaws in the embark menu.

Actually, you can get steel picks, they just cost 300 points. I would agree that the embark menu has a few flaws since for example, you can't get copper axes. While copper axes aren't so great for fighting with (they work, but copper has weak damage compared to iron), they work just fine for woodcutting since the metal doesn't affect the woodcutting speed.

Edit: Also, the main reason why you start with copper picks is that they are cheap, but even a copper pick is deadly in the hands of a legendary miner. The pick material only has an effect in combat, not when actually mining.

[Sir Andrew Ryan Farnsley]

Also it doesn't look like you can get steel picks in the beginning either. There's just some flaws in the embark menu.

Actually, you can get steel picks, they just cost 300 points. I would agree that the embark menu has a few flaws since for example, you can't get copper axes. While copper axes aren't so great for fighting with (they work, but copper has weak damage compared to iron), they work just fine for woodcutting since the metal doesn't affect the woodcutting speed.

Edit: Also, the main reason why you start with copper picks is that they are cheap, but even a copper pick is deadly in the hands of a legendary miner. The pick material only has an effect in combat, not when actually mining.

I was not even kinda of aware of that. If I knew that the metal of the tool didn't effect it's effectiveness I wouldn't always buy up to get the most expensive pick I can lol

But still the loss for taking a worse quality anvil upsets me 

[smjjames]

AFAIK, the quality of the anvil only affects the dwarves thoughts and maybe the overall quality of the workshop.

Besides, you need an anvil to make an anvil.

[Sir Andrew Ryan Farnsley]

AFAIK, the quality of the anvil only affects the dwarves thoughts and maybe the overall quality of the workshop.

Besides, you need an anvil to make an anvil.

Another thing I'm less than hot on... But that's good to know. I still think that if I buy a cheaper anvil than the standard thousand point one I should get the difference back