Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[NecroRebel]

Necro, in your example what was the purpose of defining the stone versions of the obsidian ores? They will never exist in that state, only as metal bars (smelted from obsidian) and then refined to usable metals correct?

Talking about these:

-snip-

The purpose of them was because at that time I thought that you wanted random amounts of metal in amounts smaller than 1% for all metals. The obsidian processed to 5 metals which were completely useless on their own, which then processed back to materials that were ores (the stone versions of the obsidian ores). This allowed there to truly be a % chance of a full bar of, say, adamantine in an obsidian as opposed to your method, where you have a %chance of 1/5 of a bar.

It isn't really necessary to have the extra stones if you're going with the (more-refined) slag method, it's just how I initially thought to trigger the ore RNG mechanic more than once per obsidian stone and so manage >1% metal content.



...Actually, I just noticed a problem with this whole thing. Obsidian is now an ore, and so can be used for the various "create alloy from ore" reactions. You should, with your setup that you have in your most recent post, be able to create brass and bronze straight from obsidian, with a 100% success rate, and at a rate of 2 bars per stone. It's for the same reason why tetrahedrite is best used to make billon, in terms of value: the game just checks to see if it has a zinc and copper ore for the brass reaction, and obsidian is a zinc and copper ore and so a single obsidian can fulfill the brass reaction, making 2 brass.

You can get around that problem by making all of the metals form slag bars or wafers and just having some of them produce normal bars on a 1:1 basis, or something similar, but I suspect that any stone with low-percentage ores is going to have unintended consequences no matter what, so it might not be worthwhile to bother. My original method doesn't even dodge the one-stone-to-two-bars problem entirely, though (through sheer luck) only the third-tier ore-stone (iron/silver/gold) can be used on its lonesome (for electrum).

[forsaken1111]

Then we'll use smelter reactions instead of the ore system, making custom reactions like I have there which take bars as a reagent and output the metal as a product. I'll work on doing slag forms for all of the metals, with correct stats and color. The common metals will be 1 or 2 slag per bar.

[NecroRebel]

Then we'll use smelter reactions instead of the ore system, making custom reactions like I have there which take bars as a reagent and output the metal as a product. I'll work on doing slag forms for all of the metals, with correct stats and color. The common metals will be 1 or 2 slag per bar.

Fair enough. I just didn't want to say, "Do this!" since this really should be your mod  I'm just giving advice.

[forsaken1111]

I do appreciate your help. When I work these up I'll post them here and we can find the errors I'm sure will crop up.

[forsaken1111]

Alright I have decided to go with a system whereby obsidian is processed into slag bars and those bars are then refined into usable metal bars. Here is what I have so far, please look this over and let me know if you see any problems.

Spoiler: matgloss_stone_layer (click to show/hide)

[MATGLOSS_STONE:OBSIDIAN]
[NAME:obsidian][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:177][LAVA][SHARP]
[IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE]
[ORE_METAL:ZINC_SLAG:10]
[ORE_METAL:TIN_SLAG:10]
[ORE_METAL:NICKEL_SLAG:15]
[ORE_METAL:LEAD_SLAG:25]
[ORE_METAL:COPPER_SLAG:25]
[ORE_METAL:BISMUTH_SLAG:10]
[ORE_METAL:SILVER_SLAG:5]
[ORE_METAL:IRON_SLAG:10]
[ORE_METAL:GOLD_SLAG:5]
[ORE_METAL:PLATINUM_SLAG:3]
[ORE_METAL:ALUMINUM_SLAG:3]
[ORE_METAL:ADAMANTINE_SLAG:1]
[VALUE:3]

Spoiler: matgloss_metal (click to show/hide)

[MATGLOSS_METAL:BISMUTH_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined bismuth slag][COLOR:5:5:1]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:123]
[MELTING_POINT:10488]
[BOILING_POINT:12815]
[SOLID_DENSITY:9780]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:COPPER_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined copper slag][COLOR:6:4:0]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:385]
[MELTING_POINT:11952]
[BOILING_POINT:14611]
[SOLID_DENSITY:8930]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:LEAD_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined lead slag][COLOR:0:7:1]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:130]
[MELTING_POINT:10589]
[BOILING_POINT:13148]
[SOLID_DENSITY:11340]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:NICKEL_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined nickel slag][COLOR:7:3:0]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:444]
[MELTING_POINT:12619]
[BOILING_POINT:15243]
[SOLID_DENSITY:8800]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:TIN_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined tin slag][COLOR:7:3:0]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:210]
[MELTING_POINT:10417]
[BOILING_POINT:14684]
[SOLID_DENSITY:7280]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:ZINC_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined zinc slag][COLOR:7:3:0]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:390]
[MELTING_POINT:10755]
[BOILING_POINT:11633]
[SOLID_DENSITY:7135]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:GOLD_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined gold slag][COLOR:6:6:1]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:129]
[MELTING_POINT:11915]
[BOILING_POINT:15141]
[SOLID_DENSITY:19320]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:PLATINUM_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined platinum slag][COLOR:7:7:1]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:130]
[MELTING_POINT:13182]
[BOILING_POINT:16885]
[SOLID_DENSITY:21400]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:ALUMINUM_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined aluminum slag][COLOR:7:7:1]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:900]
[MELTING_POINT:11188]
[BOILING_POINT:14534]
[SOLID_DENSITY:2700]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:SILVER_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined silver slag][COLOR:7:7:1]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:230]
[MELTING_POINT:11731]
[BOILING_POINT:13892]
[SOLID_DENSITY:10490]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:IRON_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined iron slag][COLOR:0:7:1]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:450]
[MELTING_POINT:12768]
[BOILING_POINT:15150]
[SOLID_DENSITY:7850]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:ADAMANTINE_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined adamantine slag][COLOR:3:3:1]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:7500]
[MELTING_POINT:25000]
[BOILING_POINT:50000]
[SOLID_DENSITY:200]

Spoiler: reaction_standard (click to show/hide)

[REACTION:PURIFY_BISMUTH _SLAG]
[NAME:Process bismuth slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:BISMUTH_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:BISMUTH]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_COPPER _SLAG]
[NAME:Process copper slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:COPPER_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:COPPER]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_LEAD _SLAG]
[NAME:Process lead slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:LEAD_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:LEAD]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_NICKEL _SLAG]
[NAME:Process nickel slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:NICKEL_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:NICKEL]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_TIN _SLAG]
[NAME:Process tin slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:TIN_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:TIN]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_ZINC _SLAG]
[NAME:Process zinc slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:ZINC_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:ZINC]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_GOLD _SLAG]
[NAME:Process gold slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:4:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:GOLD_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:GOLD]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_SILVER _SLAG]
[NAME:Process silver slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:3:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:SILVER_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:SILVER]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_IRON_SLAG]
[NAME:Process iron slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:2:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:IRON_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:IRON]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_PLATINUM _SLAG]
[NAME:Process platinum slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:5:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:PLATINUM_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:PLATINUM]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_ALUMINUM_SLAG]
[NAME:Process aluminum slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:5:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:ALUMINUM_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:ALUMINUM]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_ADAMANTINE _SLAG]
[NAME:Process gold slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:5:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:ADAMANTINE_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:ADAMANTINE]
[FUEL]

[forsaken1111]

Obviously all of this requires fuel (or magma) and it is very Very VERY not profitable if you do not have access to magma. You will burn through way too many trees just to get a few bars of metal.

[forsaken1111]

Found one problem. Should be "METAL_ORE" not "ORE_METAL"

testing the functionality now

[Grax]

Making them gem types has the benefit of letting them be stored in bins

I've noticed there's some kind of bug with getting something from the bins in [SMELTER] reactions.
Sometimes dwarf takes the needed material, sometimes do not.

100% case of ignoring is the "plant [5]" type of material.
The method of avoiding such a bug is making second stockpile without bins, which takes material from the first stockpile.

Gems have 50% chance for both rough and cut.
The chance for blocks is about "sometimes".

Don't know why it's so, maybe:
1. something related to dwarf personality
2. outpost manager bug
3. it is my local bug
4. bug with modded reactions

[wagawaga]

Items in containers are ignored in smelter reaction list, but will the reactions will be performed with no problems if issued with the job manager (j->m).

Bins are the only container immune to this, AFAIK, we would have noticed far earlier since most alloys can be made out of bars, that can be stored in bins.

[Grax]

Items in containers are ignored in smelter reaction list, but will the reactions will be performed with no problems if issued with the job manager (j->m).

Bins are the only container immune to this, AFAIK, we would have noticed far earlier since most alloys can be made out of bars, that can be stored in bins.

I didn't say a word about bars.

[forsaken1111]

Well that's good, because slag forms of metals are now stored as bars.

I plan to test it out today by using a free smelter reaction which creates obsidian in great quantities and then blowing through 3-5k obsidian stones to see what I get.

[NecroRebel]

Yeah, I don't think that anything besides bars and stones have been seriously considered for use since obsidian was made into a low-percentage ore. The randomization thing is just too tempting.

Also, in your custom reactions, you have your adamantine slag->adamantine reaction named "Process gold slag into bars." Not a problem for the mechanics, but might get confusing ingame.

Oh, and why did you give slag the [WAFERS] token? I used it in the original method because I thought that "Metal-bearing obsidian bars" would look weird and "Metal-bearing obsidian wafers" would look less weird, but "X slag bars" makes more sense to me instead of "X slag wafers." [WAFERS] is just cosmetic for [BRITTLE] metals, as far as I know, since it makes the bars only contribute 1 matsize instead of 3 (which is why adamantine takes multiple wafers to make most things) but if you can't make things with them due to [BRITTLE] it hardly matters.

[forsaken1111]

Also, in your custom reactions, you have your adamantine slag->adamantine reaction named "Process gold slag into bars." Not a problem for the mechanics, but might get confusing ingame.

Ahh, will fix that right away thanks.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh, and why did you give slag the [WAFERS] token? I used it in the original method because I thought that "Metal-bearing obsidian bars" would look weird and "Metal-bearing obsidian wafers" would look less weird, but "X slag bars" makes more sense to me instead of "X slag wafers." [WAFERS] is just cosmetic for [BRITTLE] metals, as far as I know, since it makes the bars only contribute 1 matsize instead of 3 (which is why adamantine takes multiple wafers to make most things) but if you can't make things with them due to [BRITTLE] it hardly matters.

Artifact from my cut/pasting of your example and I forgot to remove it. Will take that out.

That said, do you think it would be worth having the reaction spit out actual ore stones for the common metals rather than slag bars? Rare metals would stay as they are, but common (copper/tin/zinc) would spit out a no-value stone called "Copper Slag" or something which would itself be a 100% (or less) ore of copper.

[Flaede]

...I think you would need someway to distinguish  between obsidian from magma and from regular obsidian (as a layer) or someone who started on an obsidian layer map would have to much of an economy jumpstart...

I know this was a while back, but it got discarded as impossible, and there is totally a way to do this. You just add in a new rock type and make that the one that forms from magma, removing that tag from the original obsidian type. If you don't have it also be associated with any layers or anything then I don't think it would actually show up in the worldgen except for the lining of the Vents.

Am I wrong about that?

Either way, I like where this is going. Other Obsidian Farming mods go a little overboard in my opinion. This idea seems to be seeking balance.

[forsaken1111]

...I think you would need someway to distinguish  between obsidian from magma and from regular obsidian (as a layer) or someone who started on an obsidian layer map would have to much of an economy jumpstart...

I know this was a while back, but it got discarded as impossible, and there is totally a way to do this. You just add in a new rock type and make that the one that forms from magma, removing that tag from the original obsidian type. If you don't have it also be associated with any layers or anything then I don't think it would actually show up in the worldgen except for the lining of the Vents.

Am I wrong about that?

Unfortunately magma is hard-coded, but you could do it the other way around I believe. Make layer obsidian something like "Natural Obsidian" or something else, and have normal obsidian (the one hard-coded to form from magma) as the ore.

Either way, I like where this is going. Other Obsidian Farming mods go a little overboard in my opinion. This idea seems to be seeking balance.

Thanks! That was my goal, I want it to be semi-realistic (though I don't know how much metal is really in magma, I know there has to be SOME) and somewhat balanced. If I wanted free, cheap adamantine and other metals I'd just make a cheat reaction to pump them out.