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[forsaken1111]

Very nice, thank you NecroRebel. I knew the reaction numbers weren't a 'chance' per say, but I thought it would track them individually since they were on different lines.

I like your 2nd method, but wouldn't "Process obsidian for trace metals" show up 5 times on the smelter menu since it is 5 different reactions?

I may go with your first, simpler method. What you get is entirely random, and indeed may sometimes be nothing at all. I will look at the % chances and may toy with it so that you usually get some common metals such as copper and lead, but the more valuable metals are rare.

[NecroRebel]

Very nice, thank you NecroRebel. I knew the reaction numbers weren't a 'chance' per say, but I thought it would track them individually since they were on different lines.

It was an interesting thought experiment for me. I like thinking up methods of accomplishing things that other people haven't yet done, even if sometimes they're more than a little overcomplicated 

I like your 2nd method, but wouldn't "Process obsidian for trace metals" show up 5 times on the smelter menu since it is 5 different reactions?

Yeah, and on the stocks menu you'd have up to 5 different "Metal-bearing obsidian wafers" entries in your bars category and up to 5 different "Metal-bearing obsidian" entries in your stones category, too. I wanted it to be such that you can't tell what metals are present in the obsidian until you actually get them, and there's no way I know of to get around this without making it so that you can tell the difference between the intermediate steps ingame.

I may go with your first, simpler method. What you get is entirely random, and indeed may sometimes be nothing at all. I will look at the % chances and may toy with it so that you usually get some common metals such as copper and lead, but the more valuable metals are rare.

Yeah, I was going to leave it at that, but then I got to thinking that a whole 1% might be too common for some materials and wondered how one could reduce the chance below that. I figure that as long as you don't go for metals more valuable than gold it shouldn't be too game-breaking.

[forsaken1111]

Yeah, I was going to leave it at that, but then I got to thinking that a whole 1% might be too common for some materials and wondered how one could reduce the chance below that. I figure that as long as you don't go for metals more valuable than gold it shouldn't be too game-breaking.

Well you could reduce the metal per stone easily by requiring 2, 5, or even 10 obsidian stones per reaction.

Say you wanted copper to be quite common, give it a 90% chance while adamantine has a 1% per 10 stones. On average you'd need 1000 stones to get 1 adamantine wafer. Sure you'd get lucky sometimes and get more, or unlucky and get less.

My way was a more guaranteed progression for the metals, but I like the chance-based approach.

[forsaken1111]

Or indeed we could combine our methods. Use the ore method for normal metals and have the reaction always drop 1 adamantine-laced obsidian chunk per 100 or even 1000 stones, require 5 or 10 chunks to make a wafer, and you have a very controlled progression for the rare metal.

[NecroRebel]

Yeah, something like that. The problem is that smelting ores directly is hardcoded to take 1 ore per reaction, so you can't control the reaction to always drop anything without making an intermediate metal nor can you increase the number of ores per job. What I mean is that the ore reactions aren't in reaction_standard; the "Smelt x ore" reactions in the smelter are a hardcoded result of the METAL_ORE tags in the stone's matgloss entry.

What you could do, though, would be to have the 5/4/3/2/1%s for common materials, then also have it have a 1% of creating a special metal, like "Aluminum slag" or somesuch, that you then made a reaction to turn aluminum slag, platinum slag, and adamantine slag bars into standard aluminum, platinum, or adamantine bars/wafers at, say, 2:1 to 5:1. It would reduce the effective chance of getting a precious metal per ore, reduce the number of smelter steps to only 2, prevent the somewhat-ugly multiple-same-name materials/reactions, and take less custom reactions in reaction_standard.

[forsaken1111]

The reason I was treating the obsidian chunks as gems was to keep people from building with them and to allow them to be stored in bins. I suppose having 'slag' bars would work for the bins part and if someone really wanted to they could build with them. Hmm...

[NecroRebel]

I don't think that gems can work as a metal ore, without the hardcoded ore mechanics you don't get access to the random number generator, and the ore mechanic only produces metal bars (or wafers, but those are essentially just special bars).

Also, if you made them gems, people could cut them if rough or encrust objects with them if precut, so I'm not sure you really gain anything from gems instead of brittle metals. If you made the slag bars [VALUE:0] people wouldn't actually gain anything from building with them, so I'm not really seeing a problem with that.

[forsaken1111]

True true. Alright I'll work out a new set of reactions so we can get this mod working.

Then once it's working we can go crazy with it, adding new metals you can get only from magma farming or letting the obsidian drop some gems somehow.

[NecroRebel]

Yep  It isn't difficult making metals only accessible through obsidian. You can also make "special" quasi-metals, like the ones in my original more complicated method, that process into gems, wood, or whatever else you want, so making obsidian farm into gems isn't terribly hard either.

Do be warned, though, that many of these functions will take custom reactions, and supposedly there is a limit to how many reactions the game will read out of reaction_standard, so don't go too far overboard 

[forsaken1111]

I've never actually hit that limit, though I have heard of it. My current modded DF folder has over 200 reactions in it and they all seem to work.

[Diarrhea Ferret]

Wow I abolutely love the idea of Urist McSmith standing around with a big metal hammer in his hand, booze and vomit speckling his long beard, running away every five minutes because of kobold thieves, desperately attempting to extract a practically mythical substance from a big lump of rock sat on his desk... 

[forsaken1111]

Working on it right now, but wanted an opinion. Do you guys thing it should be a two-stage process or a single step?

I can make obsidian refine directly into various metal bars based on a chance, or I can have it process into metal-specific 'slag' bars which are then refined.

The advantage of the 2nd stage is that I can control the rarity further, by making a smelter reaction which takes the slag and outputs a bar. So I could make it require 5 units of adamantine slag to get 1 wafer, for example, and 3 units of gold slag to make 1 gold bar.

Or they can pop in obsidian and pop out bars of metal, entirely dependent on the chances I assign.

[NecroRebel]

Well, the two-stage process would probably be more realistic... There really isn't terribly much usable material in magma, after all, at least not that would come up in the amounts that we'd get from the pipe.

Then again, there's no real reason not to mix and match, with some metals, like tin, lead, and maybe copper coming straight from the obsidian at a low percentage and rarer, more valuable materials, especially adamantine, coming only in slag.

[forsaken1111]

Necro, in your example what was the purpose of defining the stone versions of the obsidian ores? They will never exist in that state, only as metal bars (smelted from obsidian) and then refined to usable metals correct?

Talking about these:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[MATGLOSS_STONE:ORE_OBSIDIAN_1]
[NAME:metal-bearing obsidian][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:177]
[VALUE:3]
[METAL_ORE:ZINC:5]
[METAL_ORE:TIN:5]
[METAL_ORE:NICKEL:5]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:ORE_OBSIDIAN_2]
[NAME:metal-bearing obsidian][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:177]
[VALUE:3]
[METAL_ORE:LEAD:4]
[METAL_ORE:COPPER:4]
[METAL_ORE:BISMUTH:4]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:ORE_OBSIDIAN_3]
[NAME:metal-bearing obsidian][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:177]
[VALUE:3]
[METAL_ORE:SILVER:3]
[METAL_ORE:IRON:3]
[METAL_ORE:GOLD:3]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:ORE_OBSIDIAN_4]
[NAME:metal-bearing obsidian][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:177]
[VALUE:3]
[METAL_ORE:PLATINUM:2]
[METAL_ORE:ALUMINUM:2]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:ORE_OBSIDIAN_5]
[NAME:metal-bearing obsidian][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:177]
[VALUE:3]
[METAL_ORE:ADAMANTINE:1]

[forsaken1111]

ok here's what I have so far, please parse for errors.

Spoiler: matgloss_stone_layer (click to show/hide)

[MATGLOSS_STONE:OBSIDIAN]
[NAME:obsidian][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:177][LAVA][SHARP]
[IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE]
[ORE_METAL:ZINC:15]
[ORE_METAL:TIN:15]
[ORE_METAL:NICKEL:15]
[ORE_METAL:LEAD:15]
[ORE_METAL:COPPER:15]
[ORE_METAL:BISMUTH:10]
[ORE_METAL:SILVER_SLAG:5]
[ORE_METAL:IRON_SLAG:10]
[ORE_METAL:GOLD_SLAG:5]
[ORE_METAL:PLATINUM_SLAG:3]
[ORE_METAL:ALUMINUM_SLAG:3]
[ORE_METAL:ADAMANTINE_SLAG:1]
[VALUE:3]

Spoiler: matgloss_metal (click to show/hide)

[MATGLOSS_METAL:GOLD_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined gold slag][COLOR:6:6:1]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:129]
[MELTING_POINT:11915]
[BOILING_POINT:15141]
[SOLID_DENSITY:19320]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:PLATINUM_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined platinum slag][COLOR:7:7:1]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:130]
[MELTING_POINT:13182]
[BOILING_POINT:16885]
[SOLID_DENSITY:21400]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:ALUMINUM_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined aluminum slag][COLOR:7:7:1]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:900]
[MELTING_POINT:11188]
[BOILING_POINT:14534]
[SOLID_DENSITY:2700]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:SILVER_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined silver slag][COLOR:7:7:1]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:230]
[MELTING_POINT:11731]
[BOILING_POINT:13892]
[SOLID_DENSITY:10490]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:IRON_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined iron slag][COLOR:0:7:1]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:450]
[MELTING_POINT:12768]
[BOILING_POINT:15150]
[SOLID_DENSITY:7850]

[MATGLOSS_METAL:ADAMANTINE_SLAG]
[NAME:unrefined adamantine slag][COLOR:3:3:1]
[VALUE:0]
[BRITTLE][WAFERS][DEEP]
[SPEC_HEAT:7500]
[MELTING_POINT:25000]
[BOILING_POINT:50000]
[SOLID_DENSITY:200]

Spoiler: reaction_standard (click to show/hide)

[REACTION:PURIFY_GOLD _SLAG]
[NAME:Process gold slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:4:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:GOLD_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:GOLD]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_SILVER _SLAG]
[NAME:Process silver slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:3:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:SILVER_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:SILVER]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_IRON_SLAG]
[NAME:Process iron slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:2:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:IRON_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:IRON]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_PLATINUM _SLAG]
[NAME:Process platinum slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:5:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:PLATINUM_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:PLATINUM]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_ALUMINUM_SLAG]
[NAME:Process aluminum slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:5:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:ALUMINUM_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:ALUMINUM]
[FUEL]

[REACTION:PURIFY_ADAMANTINE _SLAG]
[NAME:Process gold slag into bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:5:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:ADAMANTINE_SLAG]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:ADAMANTINE]
[FUEL]