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[Korbac]

Don't forget mouthes and eyes and noses! 

Sweet work Dude Dullard.

[Lord Dullard]

Thank you for the comments.

Done:

Legs
Arms
Digits
Tentacles
Fins
Hooves
Paws
Hands

Still to go:

Wings
Tails
Shells
Jaws
Teeth/Fangs
Eyes
Ears
Noses
Fur/Hair/Scales/Feathers
Skin/Exoskeleton (or in some cases mucous membranes)
Nails/Claws
Pincers (of both the end-of-extremity and mouth varieties)
Tongues
Torsos
Hips
Segmented Bodies
Stings
Horns
Antennae
Exotic Appendages - Anglerfish-style luminescent lures, spinnerets, Etc.
Probably more that I can't think of at the moment

Random thought: I should probably cover gender differentiation. Not in the actual, erm, business areas (there is definitely such a thing as TMI in a videogame), but in terms of differentiation of physical appearance of the type typically seen in birds and many other types of animals where males and females have different roles/responsibilities or are faced with very different life-choices.

Eventually, once I get a functional layout of all skills used by non-sentient creatures, I'll also have to work in skill modifiers to all of this. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, though.

[Fniff]

Yeah. He really does need a medal. Two in fact. Nah, fifteen would be better.

[Knight of Fools]

Just don't swamp yourself if you feel overwhelmed.  I'd hate to see you burn out over extremities like this.

[Blargityblarg]

Just don't swamp yourself if you feel overwhelmed.  I'd hate to see you burn out over extremities like this.

Oh god. Pun intended?

[Lord Dullard]

Retooled:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

PRIMARY STATS:
=====

Strength  --.
Endurance   |--- (Physical)
Agility      --'

Intelligence --.
Willpower       |--- (Mental)
Wits           --'

DERIVED STATS:
============

Speed: 10 base + (AGI / 2) + (10 / size)

(Every 10 speed = 2 tiles/second)

The smaller the creature, the greater the speed bonus, obviously - but the difference between the speed of a 100 lb. creature and a 1000 lb. creature (at least, the difference caused by weight) is negligible. This is intended.

Defense (DEF): (END / 2) + (.5 * sqrt(size))

Defense = % damage absorption. Capped at 75% overall (this is, obviously, a LOT of damage absorption). Size-bonus caps at 25%, meaning a creature can only get to the 75% cap by being 2500+ lbs. and having 100+ END. Size bonus is meant to realistically reflect the fact that an ax-blow to something the size of a rabbit should cause much more damage than an ax-blow to something the size of a giraffe, regardless of the natural relative 'toughness' of both creatures (relative to its size, the giraffe is probably much flimsier, but size still makes a difference).

Armor Class (AC):

Damage deflection. Granted by both natural armor-giving morphological qualities and artificial means. NOT %-based. Deflects a random amount of damage in a range that is determined by summing up the minimum/maximum range numbers of all components that add to AC.

Attack (ATK): ((STR + AGI) * 2) + sqrt(size)

This represents the modifier to simple physical damage a creature gains from stats and size.

HP: ((WIL + END) * 2) + (Size/4)

Pretty straightforward. Bigger = more HP. This is different from damage absorption, which can be bypassed by, say, most kinds of magic, or by toxins, or a number of other means. Regardless of how tough it is, a creature the size of the Empire State Building should still take more work to bring down than a very hardy, thickly built rodent. Formula was changed from STR + END to WIL + END to reflect a combination of both mental and physical toughness contributing to the HP pool.

Action Points (AP): (WIT + AGI) / 2

Separate from how quickly a character/creature can move, this represents how quickly they can perform actions in general, and is based both on physical and mental speed.

* NOTE - Charisma was changed for Wits to create a 'mental quickness' stat rather than to cater to the traditional idea of a stat that controls social presence. Leadership ability and persuasiveness will, I think, be skills that are based partially on statistical prospect but at least as much on learned ability.

More needs to be added to derived stats, including magic-affecting statistics and non-combat stats such as carry weight.

Input is welcome.

[squeakyReaper]

Silly, stupid question.

Does that mean in one world, it's very possible for quadrupeds to start a civ?  Or will they all be bipedal humanoids?

[Lord Dullard]

Entirely possible for non-bipeds to start a civ. For that matter, it should be possible to end up with a civilization of arthropod-like herbivores, or limbless but highly intelligent furred worms. Though I may or may not make some kind of tool manipulation a requirement for sentience. Depends on how imaginative I want to get with non-traditional architecture and development. A race of incredibly intelligent Dune-style sandworms could probably form a civilization, but the trick is figuring out how they'd 'build' something an adventurer could explore, or have recorded history or political structures, etc. Not that I can't imagine ways in which they could, but translating that to sane gameplay is more difficult.

(Also, figuring out how such a race could explore smaller architecture without completely obliterating it would be a problem. There might have to be a size restriction on player-available races.)

Non-earth evolution should also produce some sentient species that use non-primate-like means to control objects. Highly developed mouth-parts, tails, wings, and so on. Tentacles are also generally promising. Weighting morphological function according to actual physical features will help with this; I'll have the system identify physical traits that are more likely to result in fine manipulation of physical objects and, for relatively small number of species per world, allow those parts to develop towards tool use.

Also, from a player standpoint, it would probably generally be less interesting to play as races that can't manipulate objects very well, especially in terms of traditional roguelike equipment-gathering play. Perhaps magic could be used as a stand-in for tool-manipulating extremities in some cases, though. I suppose my race of theoretical uber-worms could construct armor and complicated architecture for themselves if they had telekinetic abilities.

[squeakyReaper]

Oral tradition, I suppose?  You could make natural land features like caves pop up more commonly, and a semi-intelligent race can create small packs around them.  Not enough to make an entire city or town, but I'm sure a race of bunnies can support a 30-member pack around a bear cave.  Oral tradition, if they can somehow speak, can also be an element.  They tell their children about history and such.

This would result in highly exaggerated history, though that's not a bad thing.  A diplomatic and precise race of humanoids could have their own history to a T, but that tribe of sloths believe that their founding fathers fought a minotaur in hand-to-hand combat...  all thanks to misinterpreted story about a sloth climbing on top of a cow!

[quip]

Oral tradition, I suppose?  You could make natural land features like caves pop up more commonly, and a semi-intelligent race can create small packs around them.  Not enough to make an entire city or town, but I'm sure a race of bunnies can support a 30-member pack around a bear cave.  Oral tradition, if they can somehow speak, can also be an element.  They tell their children about history and such.

This would result in highly exaggerated history, though that's not a bad thing.  A diplomatic and precise race of humanoids could have their own history to a T, but that tribe of sloths believe that their founding fathers fought a minotaur in hand-to-hand combat...  all thanks to misinterpreted story about a sloth climbing on top of a cow!

"My father once got drunk and tried to pick a fight with some uber dangerous monster that killed him."
"Yeah? Well my father once blew up every monster in the world... With his laserbeam eyes!"
"... Touche."
(Yes, touche should have an accent but I'm too lazy to give it one.)

[nenjin]

At the very least, a gender tag will be useful for assigning behavior to castes, and for use in world-gen and population maintenance algorithms. And that's before you decide to go anywhere near gender differentiation within species (with a fantasy twist, like, females have wings, that kind of thing.)

I feel like you're missing something beyond physical/mental. Since this is a game about god's and cults, shouldn't there be some stats to reflect spirituality, spiritual power, or spiritual connectedness to the natural/supernatural world? That may be too contrived for your tastes, but given the subject of the game, I think it might be apropos. Also consider the split between "gods" and creatures of a purely supernatural or mythological origin. The Titans, for example, versus the Olympian or Norse deities. You've already mentioned that you need to write up the magic-impacting stats....but I think you should start from something conceptually a little broader. So something like stats that impact more than just an MP pool/MP regen/damage/success modifier.

For example, consider a stat that is not really on a Bad - Good scale.

So "Spirituality" 0 to 100.

0 to 50 means a creature is 0 to 100% connected to the physical reality. Spells don't work as well on them, they don't cast magic as well. Spirituality 50 to 100 means the creature is 0 to 100% connected to the non-physical reality. They're great spellcasters but highly vulnerable to spells themselves.

You could end up with a race of ethereal creatures that are somewhat insubstantial. With tentacles, to boot.

Also your game implies a few levels of social interaction, yet you lack a category for anything social. Where the line is between your own design, and approaching D&D or WoD, is up to you. But you've got the ideal setup for your physical/mental mechanics....I say you take it up yet another notch. 

The unfortunate part about social skills is they can be somewhat morally judgmental. For example, Empathy might be a stat that governs how well non-hostile encounters between different sentient species goes. Yet Empathy as a stat implies having high empathy is a good thing, low empathy bad. Depending on how you want the player to perceive certain mechanics, that might not be your bag.

But even a stat like "Sociability" that just defines the overall level of the race's social savvy would fill out things a little better.

[Lord Dullard]

nenjin, thanks for the comments.

Obviously, gender differentiation requires individual creatures being defined as one gender or another, so that's already planned.

I really don't like the idea of reflecting spirituality as a 'stat', personally. Aside from the fact that I feel that 6 stats is more than enough (overabundance of stats is not to my liking, and IMHO more than 6 starts to get confusing for a player), I think that spiritual prowess should be treated more dynamically. Besides, making it a stat would create a 'dump stat' for all non-sentient creatures. A frog is not in dire need of spirituality.

Better, IMHO, to consider 'what kinds of things does a given deity/religion value in a person?' and 'what kinds of things can a person do to increase their standing within a religion?' and let spiritual standing work itself out based on that. Spreading a religion, in general, should also always increase the favor of the person doing the converting. I'd like religions to be a lot more sensible and in-depth than most shallow simulations provide. Rather than just assigning a religion with something like 'this deity relates to the sphere of Wealth, so having more money is good', a mythological reason for the deity favoring a certain set of actions should exist: 'According to legend, Urgard the Coinsmith hammered out the first coins and imbued them with his power, then cast them into the well of the sky, where they became the stars, moons, planets, and the two suns. As a sign of respect to Urgard, his temples mint coins bearing heavenly symbols. It is said that casting such a coin into a well once a day brings about the favor of Urgard.'

The difference between gods and creatures of supernatural origin will be considered, no worries. That is why creature gen is separated into several parts, like all other segments of worldgen. 

[Neonivek]

Religion can be complicated and I have yet to see a game REALLY use all aspects. Afterall there is Ferver, Favor, and Zeal.

Probably more that I can't think of at the moment

I am unfortunately devilishly good at making huge lists.

For example you didn't include: Beaks and Proboscouses (or however you spell it)

As for "Players need characters who can manipulate objects well" I do find it interesting for the idea that creatures who do not have such an ability compensate with magical abilities. Afterall in order to compete to the point where they have land they have to have the ability to develop tools, form communities, and use them.

Will you seperate magical abilities from magic spell ability? Will spirits be involved just like old fashioned magic?

[Knight of Fools]

It looks good.  I understand and appreciate the attention to detail you're giving.  Having deities with so much detail is...  Awesome.  Most statically made deities aren't so detailed.

So, will magic be an important part of the game?

I think it'd be interesting to form a cult, or have cults form on their own, that are opposed to deities and seek to remove them from power by force and/or disbelief (Without making it a one-sided commentary on RL religion).  While it'd be cool to be able to do that using pure physical prowess, fighting a being equated with godhood with just a bit of muscle and cunning on your side would be a bad idea.  Having magic would also solve the tools thing, since magic, or psychic powers (Avoiding the "Is magic magical if it's understood and controlled" thing) is a very potent tool, and would also allow for creatures that can't talk communicate mentally.

Having a number of modifiers for the game would be ideal, similar to Dwarf Fortress's race personalities, but for the world in general as well as for races.  Starting up a world with 0% spirituality and trying to convert the masses would be fun.  Being able to choose how random the world's races are (And if it includes humans and other creatures from earth) would be awesome.

On that note, how far will people be able to progress physically?  Far more than here on earth without magical assistance?  How realistic do you plan on wounds to be?

Finally: Do you have some sort of plan for how and when you're going to do this?  I just realized that that's one of the things I see in most successful indie games, but I didn't know if you had one or not.  I'm asking these questions more for myself than to help with the design process, but I guess the result is the same.

Oh god. Pun intended?

I noticed it right after I wrote it.  My best puns happen on accident, unfortunately.

[Mithras]

So have you decided what to do about having world gen decide which creatures become sentient?

The thing that occured to me was using body parts to determine sentience. Something like creatures must use at least one body part for communication in order to gain sentience, sentient creatures must then have at least one body for fine manipulation of physical objects in order to form a civilisation. Creatures must have at least one body part used for imagination in order to form religions.

I added the last bit because I like the idea of animals that can't communicate or build anything of real use having dieties.

Also you're doing great with this stuff it's satisfying just to read about your prgoress.