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[Lord Dakoth]

I believe it is my duty to bring up relationships in Morrowind/Oblivion.
"I hate your guts" (bribe x5) "Oh, there's no one I'd rather see!"

I would rather not see something as shoddy as a simple integer value for relationship status, but I'm confident that Toady will do a much better job with making an involved system.

[Vester]

It was nice to prove that the members of the community are capable of handling these issues maturely,

IS THAT A CHALLENGE? 

The issue of homosexuality within the game did not come up. Does anyone see it as possibly adding flavour or anything tangible to the game?

Probably not unless there's an ethical tag about it.  Gameplay-wise its the same as having 2 dwarves that will never have children.

That's actually interesting. I can imagine people making their fortress military into a small-scale model of the Sacred Band of Thebes, just to prevent military pregnancies.

Things like necrophilia are a physcological condition not a cultural condition. It would need a personality trigger that would activate the necrophilia when the individual comes into contact with a corpse, or has a burial job...

Accepting the Necrophilia is a cultural condition...

I'm pretty sure the Dark Eldar from WH40k have something close. They are messed up space-elves who worship the god of squick, so it would make sense.

[Dwarf]

Incest is a touchy subject, and while I think it shouldn't be included in-game, most people seem to have a bad stance towards it. Actually, it seems like humans are not naturally 'repulsed' by their relatives, but that that came with society, to prevent massive inbreeding, which is where the dangers are. Well, my point is: If two relatives actually love each other, I think there should be no barrier between them. For sure, I would never 'do it' with my mother or sister or whoever, but there are people who, well, do that.

[Silverionmox]

Incest is a touchy subject, and while I think it shouldn't be included in-game, most people seem to have a bad stance towards it. Actually, it seems like humans are not naturally 'repulsed' by their relatives, but that that came with society, to prevent massive inbreeding, which is where the dangers are. Well, my point is: If two relatives actually love each other, I think there should be no barrier between them. For sure, I would never 'do it' with my mother or sister or whoever, but there are people who, well, do that.

Actually, most people's libido is negatively impacted by close relatives because of their relatively similar signature body odour. People with immune systems that are different tend to smell different and hence attract each other to make babies with well-rounded immune systems.

[Pilsu]

It's not so simple overall. Siblings separated at birth are very likely to find each other attractive. The Westermarck effect isn't based on scent but living in close domestic proximity during the first few years of life. Probably applies to the girl next door if the conditions are met

Certainly, people that are immunologically different tend to smell a lot better. One has to consider however that you don't usually go about sniffing people and by the time you do, you're rubbing each other anyway so it's not a defining factor overall

[Silverionmox]

Smell doesn't need to reach consciously notable levels to have effect. There's a dj somewhere that uses smell to influence the mood of people on the dancefloor. He put a really tiny bit of a certain substance (could that be ambergris?) in his vaporizer and bam, most of the girls on the sides moved to the center and started dancing. Amazing.

[Pilsu]

He probably influenced his own experiment. There's a reason we use double blind for such things

Certainly, smell does do things but it's not the primary reason you'd like someone. A variable, sure

[Lord Shonus]

IMO, the best way to handle most of these things would be to let them "evolve" into the code. If such things are good for the game, eventually it will get to the point where the lack of such is too glaring an omisson, or it wi take extra effort for Toady to prevent, similar to how he would have to add in extra code to keep children from being brually killed.

[Mechanoid]

similar to how he would have to add in extra code to keep children from being brually killed.

and then there's the double-standard for killing animal and/or animal-man babies as opposed to civ entity babies.

Also, necrophilia was mentioned a page back. Obviously once magic rolls around you'll start getting souls and zombies, and zombies with souls. Eventually the question of "Will this human zombie who has the original soul returned to it seek out their spouse? What if their spouse is also a zombie?" and, to confuse things even more: What happens when the human zombie has a dwarf soul in it? And that human zombie/dwarf soul goes to find their old dwarven spouse while getting chased by the human sides' spouse?
That's a story i'd be interested in reading the ending to. (The claymation movie "Corpse Bride" comes to mind, too)

[Dakk]

similar to how he would have to add in extra code to keep children from being brually killed.

and then there's the double-standard for killing animal and/or animal-man babies as opposed to civ entity babies.

Also, necrophilia was mentioned a page back. Obviously once magic rolls around you'll start getting souls and zombies, and zombies with souls. Eventually the question of "Will this human zombie who has the original soul returned to it seek out their spouse? What if their spouse is also a zombie?" and, to confuse things even more: What happens when the human zombie has a dwarf soul in it? And that human zombie/dwarf soul goes to find their old dwarven spouse while getting chased by the human sides' spouse?
That's a story i'd be interested in reading the ending to. (The claymation movie "Corpse Bride" comes to mind, too)

It wasn't a claymation, me thinks, but thats irrelevant.

I do think crazy romantic wizards could eventualy try to bring their dead lovers back to life. I mean, if wizards are going to be nearly as powerful as Toady plans them to be, they should be able to make personal choices and have personal goals that they'd certainly use their powers to achieve, and not just world affecting decisions or silently studying away inside a impossibly huge tower. And if experienced wizards have near god-like powers, society's values and morals shouldn't be that important to them as they are to regular civ members.

[Mechanoid]

And if experienced wizards have near god-like powers, society's values and morals shouldn't be that important to them as they are to regular civ members.

After all, who would stop them? Spoiler: Other wizards.

[Dakk]

And if experienced wizards have near god-like powers, society's values and morals shouldn't be that important to them as they are to regular civ members.

After all, who would stop them? Spoiler: Other wizards.

They could certainly try, wizard-wizard wars would be fun to watch. But what if the other wizards are just as bad, if not worse? 

[Lord Shonus]

Doesn't matter, they just wouldn't want the world to know they didn't do it first.

[TerminatorII]

ok Ill admit it, I read to page 4 and had to type this. *pardon me If this already got covered between there and here*



Most of you are looking at this all wrong.

99% of DF players would probably agree that beating a mother to death with the leg of her only daughter would be horrible, and would not condone it. However, when you are in combat in DF and something like this happens 99% of us would say "ewww, that was gross and disturbingly hilarious." There is no special reward, or a goal, to do something like this, thus no intention of promoting this. Instead it is a byprouct of the flexibility of the game.

Same with rape. 99% of us would never condone it or even like it done to anyone. However, if it happened, not due to our actions, or in spite of us, It helps to contrast the good and evil and thus provides a richer world. As such the only way that I see of adding it and be proper, would be to have it "so and so forced him/her self onto so and so in a horrible and reprehensible act and created the ofspring so and so." That is emergent and does not condone the acts. I don't think this should be a thing we could do in adventure mode, just like we cannot get married in adventure mode, or have offspring. (Just how adventurous is that anyways?) Yet if Rape were possiable (as such it could be recognized by the system) and you wanded into a town and stumbled upon the duke's son attempting to force himself onto some poor farmers beutiful daughter, you could do two things, Stop it or let it proced. you could gain the wrath of the dukes son, the duke himself, the farmer, or al of the above depending on how yo used the games systems to approach the situation. Slay the dukes son? tell the Duke? Stop the son by non lethal means? kill the farmers daughter? All of these would have pros, cons, and unforseable consequences. You might become a hero to the townsfolk and a wanted criminal inthe lands. Or a despised coward and crony for the crown.


In essence it is not the act that should or should not be implemented/discussed. Rather it is the way that it is handled/portrayed.

[Trafalgar]

I resent those comments. I purposefully maim my victims, and ALWAYS gouge out their eyes. It's just a layer of epic, in my opinion, and allows me to play my character as the murderous bastard other games won't allow. I don't know how many games I've played and thought "Why can't I just cut out that guys eyes/break his bones?"
I believe that if rape were added to the game, I would at least try doing it on purpose, in order to see the effects of it own my characters, and to break out of the usually "morality in video games" cycle. If I wanted to be a moral upstanding person, I would just enjoy reality. I play video games to be a terror, a blight, not some sane being. This game is a safe haven, free from morality, for my to enjoy myself, and if there's a POSSIBILITY of something being entertaining, even if in a dark way, I will try it out.

Also, first post on these forums. woot.