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Author Topic: Horrible, overly detailed idea - part one  (Read 1232 times)

Clumsy Robot

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Horrible, overly detailed idea - part one
« on: December 23, 2009, 01:32:16 am »

I'm pretty much a newbie when it comes to Dwarf Fortress; I'm only on my first fortress. Still, reading on all of these mods has made me feel inspired, so I had to register and post these. I doubt I'm going to work on this myself, but this isn't a request for these to be made or anything like that - it's way complex and likely impossible. I'm just letting my brain-juice leak out, and hopefully it'll help yours flow.



IDEA ONE - SLAVES TO ARCEUS II: POKÉMON FORTRESS (Don't leave yet, it might not be exactly what you think.)

From some of the art I've seen, it looks like in Pokémon's alternate Earth, the creatures were armoured and used as war beasts in medieval Europe. I doubt the games are ever going to give us the experience, but wouldn't it be a cool one to have?

Regarding the creatures themselves, a number of them seem to be more dangerous than everyday animals, even if they appear to be just colourful critters with cute names. Let me give you some examples. Charizard's fire breath burns hot enough to melt rock or human bodies. Darkrai puts people and Pokémon to sleep eternally, as well as giving them endless nightmares. Banettes are possessed dolls hunting the children that discarded them. Hitmonchan punches at the velocity of a bullet train. The pain from the burns Houndoom gives never goes away. Macargo is hotter than the surface of the sun.

Many wild Pokémon would be peaceful, but there are also many that would be extremely dangerous. It's difficult for me to say without experience, but I imagine the forests and mountains in that world are crawling with megabeast-strength monsters. True megabeasts would probably be the legendary Pokémon. The games imply that

It should be noted that a number of Pokémon wouldn't exist at the time. Notably, Mewtwo, but Porygon and Castform are also artificial. The technology to revive prehistoric Pokémon from fossils has not been invented, so Kabuto, Omanyte and such wouldn't appear. Steel-types and Dark-types exist, but had not been discovered as types - Magnemite and Magneton were eventually recognized as Steel even though they were initially only known to be electric.

I don't know if evolution is possible. I don't imagine it would be.

The movers and shakers in the Pokémon world seem to the the Pokémon trainers, right? Pokémon Rangers, Pokemon Trainers, and Pokémon Trappers seem like a important point to start on. Pokémon Trainers would function the same as animal trainers, but all Pokémon should be trainable. The Pokémon Master, when he appears, would grant the ability to train legendary Pokémon and the elusive Dragon-type. Whereas one might assume that a Pokémon Trainer should bring his Pokémon to war personally, I can't remember the last time Red ran on to the field to go kick an enemy's Rattata in the face, so we can probably figure they just bark orders from the safety of indoors or whatever.

Pokémon Hunters seem like they're itching to die. I don't think that armour will save you when your hopeful lunch can bite through solid concrete. Still, it's known that Pokémon have been used as food, and Team Rocket poached Marowak for their skulls so I'd assume they sell for some high price. Still, Pokémon are hardly immortal, and I suppose a hunting Growlithe might get the job done. The games imply that normal animals exist alongside Pokémon as well, so if normal animals are left in they'd seem like downright pushovers by comparison.

I don't think Pokémon's sci-fi technology has existed since medieval times, so I think a Pokémon Trapper's got it a bit rougher. Since this job is more important, it would be nice if they could catch creatures other than rats. It could be possible, however, have the knowledge to make primitive forms of Pokéballs out of fruits called Apricorns. That's probably a stretch, but Apricorn Balls make a sensible replacement for traps and cages. Actually, other things are stored by a similar method, so Apricorn-based Item Balls could replace bins.

Do fisherdwarves just scoop up fish with their hands like bears? The various rods should be implemented somehow, and would naturally alter your catch. Old rods would actually lend to a safe source of food, the defenseless Magika- on second thought, they'd probably be in as much risk as the Hunters. The Good Rod and Super Rod wouldn't catch so often, but would catch more dangerous fish, probably with a lot more flesh, serving as a greater amount of food. I don't think they'd be too useful in battle since they're restricted to water, but then again I imagine a sieging enemy might find it inconvenient if they have to cross a moat filled with trained Gyarados.

Judging from artwork, it seems like in the medieval Pokémon world, armour was created for Pokémon as well. I don't imagine they'd have to armour them, but the ability to forge armour for Pokemon makes sense. Humans would still need armour, though (and how!).

The butcher would probably wet his pants when he has to do his job, and I imagine a Cubone might beat the bone carver to death with a femur. Still, most farmers should be able to do their jobs just fine. The Milker would require a Miltank specifically, though, and the Grower would have a range of berries to plant. Also, the Woodcutter doesn't have to fear the cowardly Sudowoodo, and the Furnace Operator can probably be assisted by a Fire-type Pokémon. Ground-type Pokemon might provide sand for Glassmakers, or perhaps sand could be extracted from the veins of a Cacturne.

There's no good reason why soldiers shouldn't still be around: concept art depicts an armoured Tyranitar, but also armoured humans. A player might find it to his advantage to resort to biological warfare completely, but sending out troops with Pokémon assigned should certainly remain an option, and having one's champions fighting alongside those living war machines just makes sense. I get the feeling that siege engines will seem overshadowed by these horrific monsters, but then again, they seem like the only thing of human make capable of standing toe-to-toe with them.

Dwarves don't exist in the Pokémon world, so the only humanoid race is human. Some Pokémon have human intelligence or even superior intelligence - Alazakam is the most notable example. However, these would probably still act as animals rather than forming a society, so there's no reason to have them as anything more than animals. I suppose races could be divided into ethnic groups or countries, but that seems rather silly in this case, so let's leave it to Samurai Fortress or whatever else it makes actually sense in. Having different races or some analogue for it would be nice nonetheless, otherwise it's rather monotonous.

What makes sense to me would be for there to instead be parallels to the villainous Teams in the games. They wouldn't quite be Team Rocket and Team Galaxy per se, but they'd be medieval groups with similar goals and structure. The clear fault of this is that it means that you'll probably be fighting against almost all races, but it's not like things were looking good for you when the bugs have blades the size of your arm anyway.

Team Underground should be designed with Team Rocket's yakuza (Japanese mafia) origin in mind. They'd have shady business. They have no qualms with killing Pokémon for a profit, and probably have just as few for killing you. Come to think of it, they might actually be a viable trading partner; they're businessmen after all. Though it probably wouldn't be a vital resource, they'd certainly be willing to trade alcohol. If possible, a number of them should be encountered with the pinky finger on their left hand cut off. Perhaps in adventure mode they can be found playing cards. They aren't the sort to ambush.

I doubt these sort of things could actually be implemented, but for the sake of the concept - Team Inferno and Team Abyss (Magma and Aqua) would probably be fairly similar to each other. They're both dedicated to reforming the terrain, Abyss by flooding and Inferno by Boatmurdered. They're both potentially friendly, but would eventually turn on you for being friendly with the other group. Abyss are just a group of criminals like Underground, but Inferno is a cult worshipping the land. It'd be lovely if they could somehow attempt to flood you during a siege.

Team Deluge would be the analogue of Team Galaxy. They'd openly attack anyone, and would have more advanced technology than the other groups, yourself included. Rather than having any sense of personality to their attacks, they will perform whatever underhanded or brutal method it takes to defeat you most effectively. They cannot be reasoned with; their goal is to destroy the world to allow their leader to recreate it in their own image.

Team Plunder (Team Snagem) would be the joke of the lot. Their hideouts barely hold together, and they're not very well equipped. They try to sneak into your hideout to steal your Pokémon, and perhaps have explosives if that can somehow be designed. However, they're the small fries here.

I haven't played adventure mode, so I can't say much on it. It should be easy enough to invision anyway. I imagine it would be funny to throw a Pokeball and break a guy's arm.

Aaaaand that's more than enough for just a thought, isn't it?

EDIT: Oh, right. Evil locales could have ghost Pokémon instead of skeletons and zombies. I don't mean ghosts just as in Gastleys and Haunters, I mean a uncatchable ghost template as well. I mean, there was a ghost Marowak which retains its form despite death in the originals. Ghosts and spirits are otherwise shown to be pretty present in the games - mediums are often possessed and cry out for blood, Spiritomb's origin, that sort of thing.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 01:45:07 am by Clumsy Robot »
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3

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Re: Horrible, overly detailed idea - part one
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2009, 01:43:52 am »

This is already done, in part.

The other ideas will, most likely, be possible in the future.

Evolution isn't not too far away in effect considering that we have a castes system in the next version
Individual use of pets by historical figures and such is a proposed goal somewhere along the line, so certain creatures having more relevance to individuals will show up - Core11 is a decent example
Modifying the animal training system itself and the ability to modify combat AI strike me as a little unlikely for the near future, but we'll just have to see how things pan out (hard-coded features being expanded to the raw files is an ongoing goal, but to what extent that'll eventually go we likely don't know)
Fishing's bound to be expanded at some point - Bloat356, Core84, Req326
Cultish teams are entirely possible to some extent in the current version, but at the moment their individual ideologoies mean very little; this is something ongoing expansion - Core71, Core15, Core89

Give me a minute and I'll try to find you some citations for these claims from the devlogs

Edited with links to dev docs
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 01:55:19 am by 3 »
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darkflagrance

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Re: Horrible, overly detailed idea - part one
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2009, 11:11:36 am »

I'd suggest that some of the enemy civs you fight actually be armies of pokemon that have banded together to fight off the human menace that is capturing them and taking away their freedom.

Eventually, Dungeon masters will be removed from the game, by the way.
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Doomshifter

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Re: Horrible, overly detailed idea - part one
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2009, 02:44:56 pm »

If you would like to use my mod in helps achieving this, please do ;w;

I would totally play this...
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Right now Rampages seem to be Godzilla quietly walking into Tokyo, biting the leg off of one reporter... then creeping off again without a sound.

Clumsy Robot

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Re: Horrible, overly detailed idea - part one
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2009, 03:22:03 pm »

3, thanks. I'll have to look through those devlogs.

Doomshifter, I'd actually seen your mod before, but I hadn't started playing Dwarf Fortress yet, so I had thought it was just... additional materials or something. I don't know, I think it was because someone talked about wearing clothes made out of Pikachu. I'm definately going to try it out.

Darkflagrance, you're making me think of Mystery Dungeon, but I haven't really played that so I can't say much.


While I'm here, I might as well provide some more inspiration. Enjoy.
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NRN_R_Sumo1

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Re: Horrible, overly detailed idea - part one
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2009, 08:11:42 pm »

You -can- wear any pokemons hide almost, as when a corpse is dropped and butchered, you often get a raw hide to be tanned into leather, and perhaps a shell or bundle of bones to match as well.
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ungulateman

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Re: Horrible, overly detailed idea - part one
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2009, 11:34:41 pm »

I noticed a mistake in the OP - Hitmonchan punches faster than the speed of light the human dwarven eye can see. Not a bullet train.

Yeah, Doomshifter's already began work on pretty much the same thing.
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Doomshifter

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Re: Horrible, overly detailed idea - part one
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2009, 03:44:15 am »

I noticed a mistake in the OP - Hitmonchan punches faster than the speed of light the human dwarven eye can see. Not a bullet train.

Yeah, Doomshifter's already began work on pretty much the same thing.
My one has the first 151 pokemon (All the kanto pokemon/the pokemon that were in Red and Blue), a few additional gems based on ancient pokemon remains and some toys (various non-functional pokeballs).

In dwarf mode, you can use the pokemon as war and hunting animals, because all of them have the TRAINABLE tag. You can butcher them for skin, meat and bone, tan the skin for leather and carve the bone appropriately. My friend had a rather interesting circumstance with a War Rapidash that he had tied onto a chain a fair distance from his fort. It found a kobold thief by accident, trampled it and burned it to death with fire. He was afraid to let it back near the fort, because of the indiscriminate fire.

In adventurer mode, you can get ambushed by pokemon (generally Primeape and Mankey, because they're just big enough and deadly enough. They will mess you up.), get quests to kill pokemon megabeasts and semimegabeasts (Moltres burnt down the town, go kill it!) and maybe even find a gyarados in the water. Also, my mod has ghost pokemon somewhat worked out with plenty of dud body parts to protect it and a high damblock. Of course, there are a few modding errors that have yet to be completely ironed out, so...

Anyway, if you so wish, please take whatever you like from my mod. All I ask for is credit when you finish! ^w^ I know quite a few people would be very eager to play this.

@ungulateman
Hitmonchan + Hitmonlee are pretty hardcore in my mod. They have several different main attacks to randomly fire off at you, all of which are various levels of kill-you-dead. But, they're only slightly bigger than humans, so they're not that great a threat if you can get them to wrestle rather than strike.
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Right now Rampages seem to be Godzilla quietly walking into Tokyo, biting the leg off of one reporter... then creeping off again without a sound.