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[Jackrabbit]

Hell, attack drones could have won the conflict for them.

Note that I haven't read the thread, and I'm sure it's already been said.

GAH JACKRABBIT YOU FOOL IT'S ALREADY BEEN MENTIONED.

Quote that if it has. I'm all about efficiency.

[Neruz]

Oh that tree.

What about that tree? They blew that tree up, i thought we were talking about the other tree.

With explosives. Bombs. Rockets. RPGs. Whatever they were.

They made it go boom. See what I'm getting at, here?

Missiles actually, and yes, we know they had the explosives neccessary to blow up the tree. That wasn't the issue; the issue was getting them to the tree.

I don't know, what usage exactly would they serve, considering they already knew where all the unobtainium deposits were?

DID they know where all the deposits were? And how? I thought they only knew where some of them were.

Surveillance of Na'zi is another one, as is searching out nests of dangerous wildlife to eradicate and being able to research from a base without having to send out human / Na'vi bodied researchers into a dangerous landscape.

Also, the whole episode reminded me of this South Park episode but stupider.

They seemed to know where all the desposits were, considering Unobtainium, when 'active' apparantly induces an antigravity field, i imagine they could probably find the stuff via EM radiation or something, perhaps even sonar. Considering a drone is probably fairly likely to get eaten by something i can't imagine they'd really be all that useful.

And who knows; maybe they did have drones, which in no way changes that there would be no way to communicate with or control the drones while they were mountains.

Also; again, they were not trying to eradicate wildlife, only protect themselves agaisnt it.

Final also, the plan to bomb the tree was done in haste; they were trying to do it before all the Na'vi tribes got together and overran their mining outpost with sheer force of numbers, they didn't really have the time to futz about running scouting missions through the mountains to try and find the damn tree.

Hell, attack drones could have won the conflict for them.

Note that I haven't read the thread, and I'm sure it's already been said.

GAH JACKRABBIT YOU FOOL IT'S ALREADY BEEN MENTIONED.

Quote that if it has. I'm all about efficiency.

Attack Drones would fall under the "Not an army operation" clause, and also the "no way to communicate with or control while in the mountains" clause, and double also the "entire fucking planet trying to kill you" clause.


Remember, again, the Humans beat the Na'vi. They lost to the Planet.

[Asehujiko]

What was also stupid because their mine was an excellent defensive position. Nowhere for the bird lizards to ambush from, lot's of open ground that favors long ranged combat, the quarries themselves act as hazard for the attacker and they had the chance to rig the whole place up with landmines and booby traps. If I remember correctly, the place even had a large perimeter wall, which would make all ground attacks moot as the navi have no tradition castle siege equipment aside from the hammerhead rhinos, forcing them to attack from above, which makes them easy targets since the entire mercenary force could be dedicated to shooting up instead of all side directions and the aforementioned lack of cover.

[Neruz]

Yeah, it was a pretty good fortification. But it would have had a hard time standing against a hundred thousand Na'vi.

[Pathos]

They seemed to know where all the desposits were, considering Unobtainium, when 'active' apparantly induces an antigravity field, i imagine they could probably find the stuff via EM radiation or something, perhaps even sonar. Considering a drone is probably fairly likely to get eaten by something i can't imagine they'd really be all that useful.

And who knows; maybe they did have drones, which in no way changes that there would be no way to communicate with or control the drones while they were mountains.

Also; again, they were not trying to eradicate wildlife, only protect themselves agaisnt it.

Final also, the plan to bomb the tree was done in haste; they were trying to do it before all the Na'vi tribes got together and overran their mining outpost with sheer force of numbers, they didn't really have the time to futz about running scouting missions through the mountains to try and find the damn tree.

Why would something try and eat something made of metal? Maybe attack, but it's METAL. Most things would learn not to try and eat something undigestible. (Depending on how long the humans had been on the planet for.)

You wouldn't need to. They'd be automated.

That would've taken a few days, at least, depending on the size of the planet.

Attack Drones would fall under the "Not an army operation" clause, and also the "no way to communicate with or control while in the mountains" clause, and double also the "entire fucking planet trying to kill you" clause.

Remember, again, the Humans beat the Na'vi. They lost to the Planet.

They seemed to requisition and redesign the massive forklifts or whatever rather well.

You'd just need to program two rules:- If it's blue, shoot it through. If it's metal, let it settle. No need for communication.

Which was stupid. They should've just burnt the forest down.

Or shot the giant floating mountains down after remembering the old addage "Rocks fall, everyone dies".

[Jackrabbit]

Well, it is a totally different planet (except not really, ha ha ha what why is everything just larger and sillier looking) so it's entirely possible the animals behave very differently. The banshees might just immediately go after any object they don't know by sight because they see it as a threat. No need to simply eat it.

[Neruz]

Why would something try and eat something made of metal? Maybe attack, but it's METAL. Most things would learn not to try and eat something undigestible. (Depending on how long the humans had been on the planet for.)

The Pandoran wildlife showed itself as pretty goddamn aggressive. At the start of the movie the helicopter chick makes the comment that the helicopters are not the biggest or the meanest things in the skies, which heavily implies the helicopters have been attacked by Pandoran wildlife plenty of times before.

You wouldn't need to. They'd be automated.

GREAT IDEA. That way they can fly around, bumping into mountains and crash horribly!

Because, in case you didn't notice, there was no indication anywhere in the movie that AI existed in an reasonable form. So top score for just pulling shit out of your ass.

That would've taken a few days, at least, depending on the size of the planet.

It took them a few days to notice the Na'vi gathering. Jesus christ, did you not watch the movie?

They seemed to requisition and redesign the massive forklifts or whatever rather well.

They gave them big guns and taped a box of ammo to their shoulder. That was pretty much the entirity of the modifications.

You'd just need to program two rules:- If it's blue, shoot it through. If it's metal, let it settle. No need for communication.

Thankyou for informing me that you have no fucking clue what AI is, or, more specifically, what AI is not.

Which was stupid. They should've just burnt the forest down.

Thankyou for informing me that you are retarded. See the Veitnam War for how well that works (Hint: It doesn't. At all.)

Or shot the giant floating mountains down after remembering the old addage "Rocks fall, everyone dies".

The mountains float because they are made of active Unobtainium, so yes, this is perfectly viable if your plan is to demolish every single mountain. I'll just pull some explosives out of my ass and we can get to work. Come back in about fifty years.

[Pathos]

The Pandoran wildlife showed itself as pretty goddamn aggressive. At the start of the movie the helicopter chick makes the comment that the helicopters are not the biggest or the meanest things in the skies, which heavily implies the helicopters have been attacked by Pandoran wildlife plenty of times before.

Pandoran wildlife = Stupidest stuff ever

GREAT IDEA. That way they can fly around, bumping into mountains and crash horribly!

Because, in case you didn't notice, there was no indication anywhere in the movie that AI existed in an reasonable form. So top score for just pulling shit out of your ass.

Because a basic sensor system combined with a floating turret gun is AI?

It took them a few days to notice the Na'vi gathering. Jesus christ, did you not watch the movie?

Yes, I just tried to ignore the massive disparity in how "clever" the people working on the planet were, since they seemed to rapidly switch from angry and warmongering to careful and cautious and back again, all the while running up and down the idiot ladder. Because it had a shitty plot, poor characterisations of pretty much everyone and was incapable of making a decent point on any single topic.

They gave them big guns and taped a box of ammo to their shoulder. That was pretty much the entirity of the modifications.

Thankyou for informing me that you have no fucking clue what AI is, or, more specifically, what AI is not.

Artificial intelligence. Motion detector.

Your irony is delicious.

Thankyou for informing me that you are retarded. See the Veitnam War for how well that works (Hint: It doesn't. At all.)

It works in exposing enemy units and allowing you to shoot them from the sky. Or getting rid of wildlife. Or, I don't know, destroying trees. I mean, who the hell would want to destroy trees, right?

I'm surprised you didn't say, "THEY WOULDN'T HAVE FIRE BECAUSE THEY ARE CIVILIANS NOT MILITARY."

The mountains float because they are made of active Unobtainium, so yes, this is perfectly viable if your plan is to demolish every single mountain. I'll just pull some explosives out of my ass and we can get to work. Come back in about fifty years.

Yay for a barely explained pseudo-science material. Why not put a bomb on one side of a floating mountain so it crashes into the rest and clears the area for a rocket strike attack?

See, there are so many fucking ways the troops or whatever could've done it that what they did was ridiculously stupid. It's not about your various defences of "THEY COULDN'T" it's about the many, many creative plans that could've been pulled off instead of "ONE DOES SIMPLY WALK INTO PANDORA."

[Neruz]

Because a basic sensor system combined with a floating turret gun is AI?

:|

Stop, just stop now. You clearly have absolutely no idea how hard it is to make a ground based robot that doesn't run into walls more than half the time. Trying to make an air-based one, dealing with much greater distances, higher speeds and an entire third dimension, would be an abject nightmare.

Yes, I just tried to ignore the massive disparity in how "clever" the people working on the planet were, since they seemed to rapidly switch from angry and warmongering to careful and cautious and back again, all the while running up and down the idiot ladder. Because it had a shitty plot, poor characterisations of pretty much everyone and was incapable of making a decent point on any single topic.

It's actually a pretty accurate representation of an exasperated manager who's being pressured by everyone and has tried everything he can think of with no result. It's also a pretty accurate representation of cultural incompatibility. It is exxagurated a bit, but not as much as you might think.

Artificial intelligence. Motion detector.

Your irony is delicious.

Your idiocy is better.

It works in exposing enemy units and allowing you to shoot them from the sky. Or getting rid of wildlife. Or, I don't know, destroying trees. I mean, who the hell would want to destroy trees, right?

I'm surprised you didn't say, "THEY WOULDN'T HAVE FIRE BECAUSE THEY ARE CIVILIANS NOT MILITARY."

No, no it doesn't. Because, you see, the thing about rainforests is they have this annoying habit of being, well, wet.

The attempts to burn the forest in Vietnam were an excellent demonstration in abject failure. Project Orange was better at wiping out the trees, unfortunately the sheer volume of that required and the fact that it defoliated soldiers as well as trees made it impractical as well.

Yay for a barely explained pseudo-science material. Why not put a bomb on one side of a floating mountain so it crashes into the rest and clears the area for a rocket strike attack?

Because of this thing called "Mass" and this other thing called "Inertia", and this third thing called "Time".

See, there are so many fucking ways the troops or whatever could've done it that what they did was ridiculously stupid. It's not about your various defences of "THEY COULDN'T" it's about the many, many creative plans that could've been pulled off instead of "ONE DOES  SIMPLY WALK INTO PANDORA."

You do realise that the mercs were being run by a former army general. Go talk to an army general about 'creative'. Go on, i'll wait.


The situation on Pandora was, quite simply, absolute hell. It was pretty much the worst possible situation you could ever hope to be in. The only redeeming features was that the Na'vi didn't have guns, and they weren't organised. Jake fixed the second one, so that leaves the first one, which was rendered moot when the entire planet decided to just stomp on everything in sight.

Also also; the goal was not to mindlessly slaughter and exterminate all the life on the planet. The shareholders would not be impressed at attempted genocide. The goal was to scatter the Na'vi and make them give up trying to resist the human occupation, genocide was not an option.

[Pathos]

:|

Stop, just stop now. You clearly have absolutely no idea how hard it is to make a ground based robot that doesn't run into walls more than half the time. Trying to make an air-based one, dealing with much greater distances, higher speeds and an entire third dimension, would be an abject nightmare.

Because that's AI. 

Also, the fact these people are able to grow biological avatars and use them through mind changing might actually mean that AI doesn't matter as long as they can mind meld with the robots. (Again, probably not difficult and cheaper than making the avatars themselves.)

There's no proof that they CAN'T make those things. I mean, hell, space travel.

It's actually a pretty accurate representation of an exasperated manager who's being pressured by everyone and has tried everything he can think of with no result. It's also a pretty accurate representation of cultural incompatibility. It is exxagurated a bit, but not as much as you might think.

Well, considering the Na'vi were just blue people with a bestiality and plantophile fetish, it's just silly. There's not a single rational person amongst them.

Considering they were making results with what's his face, he was getting where he needed to. But then, BLOOD FOR THE MACHINE GOD. (Clearly to show how the military industrial complex drives Americans to slaughter helpless civilians.)

Your idiocy is better.

RAPIER WIT.

No, no it doesn't. Because, you see, the thing about rainforests is they have this annoying habit of being, well, wet.

The attempts to burn the forest in Vietnam were an excellent demonstration in abject failure. Project Orange was better at wiping out the trees, unfortunately the sheer volume of that required and the fact that it defoliated soldiers as well as trees made it impractical as well.

And animals have this amazing habit of running from any smoke. Put down flames that don't set the rainforest on fire, etc etc. If it catches fire, all the better. You're also forgetting napalm, which burns despite any water. You see, there are ways to make fires in wet places. 

Also, the soldiers lost leaves, huh?

Because of this thing called "Mass" and this other thing called "Inertia", and this third thing called "Time".

Again, anti-gravity pseudo-science contradicts at least one of these things.

You do realise that the mercs were being run by a former army general. Go talk to an army general about 'creative'. Go on, i'll wait.

Now that's just disparaging. Creativity is quite possible in a military environment. And I highly doubt you've ever talked to an army general about it.

The situation on Pandora was, quite simply, absolute hell. It was pretty much the worst possible situation you could ever hope to be in. The only redeeming features was that the Na'vi didn't have guns, and they weren't organised. Jake fixed the second one, so that leaves the first one, which was rendered moot when the entire planet decided to just stomp on everything in sight.

Also also; the goal was not to mindlessly slaughter and exterminate all the life on the planet. The shareholders would not be impressed at attempted genocide. The goal was to scatter the Na'vi and make them give up trying to resist the human occupation, genocide was not an option.

Except, in a situation such as that, genocide was the only option, and they were really attempting it considering the masses of Na'vi gathered around their Yggdrassil or whatever.

Face it, man, Avatar was a terribad movie in terms of plot, completely filled with holes (some of which you have pointed out whilst defending it, and when you have to heavily defend something on it's plot holes you know there's a problem) and incapable of having a consistent theme - mainly due to the rapid shift in genre about 2/3 of the way through. James Cameron really lost his touch after Titanic.

[Neruz]

Because that's AI. 

Also, the fact these people are able to grow biological avatars and use them through mind changing might actually mean that AI doesn't matter as long as they can mind meld with the robots. (Again, probably not difficult and cheaper than making the avatars themselves.)

There's no proof that they CAN'T make those things. I mean, hell, space travel.

And there's no proof they can, so feel free to pull things out of your ass if you like, but it's meaningless.

Well, considering the Na'vi were just blue people with a bestiality and plantophile fetish, it's just silly. There's not a single rational person amongst them.

Considering they were making results with what's his face, he was getting where he needed to. But then, BLOOD FOR THE MACHINE GOD. (Clearly to show how the military industrial complex drives Americans to slaughter helpless civilians.)

I suggest you rewatch it; the results they wanted were "Relocate Na'vi", that result was never going to happen peacefully. The Humans had absolutely nothing the Na'vi wanted, they were not going to leave hometree.

It was Jake discovering this and making it clear to the manager dude; that no peaceful option was available due to culture clash, that forced his hand to the military approach.

And animals have this amazing habit of running from any smoke. Put down flames that don't set the rainforest on fire, etc etc. If it catches fire, all the better. You're also forgetting napalm, which burns despite any water. You see, there are ways to make fires in wet places. 

Also, the soldiers lost leaves, huh?

Oh god, i can't take this anymore. Stop, for the love of god stop. You have absolutely no concept of logistics, resources, reasonable action or anything. You are a mindless psychopath who doesn't even understand the concept of plausible. This discussion is over.

[userpay]

You guys are arguing about a movie that already had messed up (though maybe possible in the future?) science, the fact of the matter is they most likely would not have had any drones because they weren't military anyway and with the rockets they used for the big tree they still had to get really close in order to use those. Also I seem to recall the approach to the second tree had quite a bit of mist and if the tree was visible from orbit then they could have descended right on top of it.

[Pathos]

And there's no proof they can, so feel free to pull things out of your ass if you like, but it's meaningless.

MAGIC ANTIGRAVITY STONE ALLOWS THINGS TO FLY. FLYING DRONES ARE FAIRLY SIMPLE IF YOU CAN ACHIEVE SPACE TRAVEL. UNDERSTAND THIS. CAPS ARE NECESSARY TO GET MESSAGE ACROSS.

I suggest you rewatch it; the results they wanted were "Relocate Na'vi", that result was never going to happen peacefully. The Humans had absolutely nothing the Na'vi wanted, they were not going to leave hometree.

It was Jake discovering this and making it clear to the manager dude; that no peaceful option was available due to culture clash, that forced his hand to the military approach.

I could think of a few things the Na'vi might want straight off. Again, movie suggests humans are morons that can only be beat by deus ex machina. (Again, mixed messages.) Oh, and as a side note, they really couldn't have destroyed the home tree with explosives, if any of the bullcrap science they spouted in the movies would work as they said it did.

Because the best idea to relocate a native people is to slaughter them and their children. =DD Shooting down their home tree which resulted in deaths, slaughtering them in their hundreds whilst fighting them to get to their crappy little tree etc etc. What, were there no other deposits or something?

Oh god, i can't take this anymore. Stop, for the love of god stop. You have absolutely no concept of logistics, resources, reasonable action or anything. You are a mindless psychopath who doesn't even understand the concept of plausible. This discussion is over.

Hey, man, I'm not the one who thinks people have leaves. I think I know which one of us is the more messed up, here.

Let's be honest, this whole movie was a way for Jake Sue-ly to have sex with a blue-skinned woman in 3D. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

i agree, the movie was made for fanboys to fall in love with neytri; buy all the merchandising and write erotic fanfics with themselves and random pandoran smurfette\Neytri

[Electronic Phantom]

For the movie:  It was okay.  The plot wasn't original (as has already been beaten to death), but was well-developed.  I found the over-bearing, thinly-veiled philosophical stance to be a little tiring.

At this thread:  0.o   Really guys?

-(e)EP