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Author Topic: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits  (Read 12366 times)

qoonpooka

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2009, 07:12:43 pm »

I always build my fortresses around quirks in the environment, not terraforming too much unless necessary to make room for some construction. Because of this (and also that I want the fortresses to look good through dwarven eyes) I usually en up with pretty inefficient fortesses.

I only lose my forts to immigration-induced starvation or combat losses, so I've evolved into a military-agrarian builder.  I too use the environment, but I select my site based upon defensible terrain.  I look for small hills (no more than +2z from surrounding level) flanking troughs, ideally with arable land atop them.

I then dig the entrance (three-wide "L" configuration) between these two peaks and channel out the roof to four-squares past the bend of the -L (to keep dwarves out of LOS of invaders charging the gate.)  I then channel out a flush, vertical wall up to the inner and forward sides of the two hills. (Sometimes the outer of one of them as well.)

These hills are then hollowed out on Z+1 (and if they have it, Z+2), smoothed, and fortified.  My practice ranges go in there so that my marksdwarves will be on-station to defend against attackers who will be forced to walk past the windows.

The route up to the tower goes through the barracks and a trap hall - and is the only route available to the AI when the trade depot is closed up.  The enemy must fight their way through my entire army to reach my base - which is accessible via retractable skybridge from one of the towers (sometimes to the other one, in which case I hold a squad in reserve for potshots.)

If the enemy breaches all of my defenses, this last bridge is retracted and I seal my fortress up for a protracted siege.

I have roof gardens on the towers, and food production on the safe side of the retractable bridge.  I can hold out indefinitely or build up and train a new military to attempt to re-take the garrison.

My housing is all 3x3 squares arranged in an 'arterial-to-side hall' pattern.  It accumulates traffic past my meeting halls and galley.

I am considering including an option to flood the lower levels of my garrison and cut off the escape of the remainder of the enemy to make the sally easier.  This requires a level of mechanical knowledge I do not yet possess.

I've always been wiped out by nobility/immigrants or some ill placed ambushes before getting this pattern fully established.

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Humberticus

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2009, 07:28:04 pm »

You can never fail with a 2x2 central up/down staircase with z levels built such that every point on every z level is equidistant from the up/down staircase. Very efficient.

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shadowsofwhite

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2009, 07:39:34 pm »

I build fortresses that are virtually useless. I never have more than 10 dwarves (I kill out any that come beyond that), and always aim to produce some sort of rather dorky looking megaconstruction. Other than that, I always produce a 21x21 pit straight to the deepest point, and my functioning fortress stems from that hole. I later fill it with obsidian to make it less visible after all is said and done.
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Blargityblarg

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2009, 07:58:22 pm »

My forts are all the same.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Bedroom levels.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Workshop levels.

EDIT: Gah, those are really small, I'll make a couple screenshots.
2NDEDIT: There we go.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 08:30:56 pm by Blargityblarg »
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Foehamster

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2009, 08:13:56 pm »

My fortresses tend to have similar designs.

I like to build a walled keep either in a forest or a plateau with a moat and long drawbridge (for dropping invaders).  The main walls usually enclose about a 30x30↔50x50 tile area so I can continue to woodcut during sieges.

In the center I have a small keep 7x7↔11x11ish.  It has a 3 wide ramp entrance gated by a bride with fighting fortifications on the walls and usually a tiny courtyard with another well (drawing from an artificial cistern).

The 3 wide entrance splits down into my drowning chamber/trade depot and my first set of stairs to the main fortress.  My main stairways aren't connected to these stairways as the 7 or so tiles that separate here are my final choke point.

For most rooms I use the easy shift+↑, shift+→ rooms for workshops and tiny stockpiles as well as standard stockpile rooms.  I turn the same area into 3x4 rooms with a hallway or two larger rooms.  The only design efficiency I use is to place small 3->9 tile stockpiles adjacent to certain workshops.
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silhouette

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2009, 08:15:51 pm »

My quriks:
ALWAYS mke it so theres a pillar every so and so so there are no tiles that are five squares away from a wall.
This is due to the cave-in thing, never actually played the 2d df but i read about it so it just stuck in my mind... hehe, atleast my fortress wont auto-collapse when toady puts cave-ins back in.

I usually make a MASSIVE circular staircase going all the way to the bottom of the map.
Serriously ,MASSIVE.
With big halls coming off all four sides, usually 3-5 tiles wide.
But the big staircase makes it sorta bad for adventuring. :(.

I dont put my bedrooms on the bottom floor or below my workshops, i do it the otherway around.
Usually i place the order of things like this..

Castle above ground
castle on ground and hallway into natural rock with the massive staircase.
Farms
Above dinning rooms (basically places for the king and such, also gives it a neat look) (Also the butchery and kitchens are here aswell)
Dinning room (for the peasants and such) (Stockpiles with food and booze for easy access)
Water works where i place my well
Graveyards
Bedrooms, both nobles and peasants.
empty z level
empty z level
stocks
stocks 2
Workshop level 1
workshop level 2 (smelters and such)
Magma level
(if i have more z-levels)
magma experimentation/ obsidian production/ mega project/ mega weapon project.
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LordBucket

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2009, 12:51:47 am »

So, whats your building style? What odd quirks and habits to you have

 * I pretty much always embark on perfectly flat terrain. Keeps everything visible, minimizes fps issues, and allows me to go underground right away without having to clear anything first.

 * I always build above ground walls to enclose one gamescreen. Barracks and front line defenses go in and around that, allowing me a clear differentiation between "above ground" and "below ground" to minimize problems with "only soldiers may go outside"

 * I tend to have large wood economies. Metal is a low priority. I rarely get around to doing anythign important with metal for the first year or two of a fort. Basically I wait to randomly get legendaries, and if I don't, I don't make anything out of metal.

 * My underground city structure is built on a 17x17 grid with 3-wide hallways. That's the perfect size for navigating and building using shift-arrow keys I have standard layouts that I use every fortress for various zones. Housing is a standard 3+door per room, with 28 rooms per grid. Workshop grids get 3 workshops, two small stockpiles, a pump training area and stairs leading to the next workshop grid, with all workshop grids vertically in a stack. Dining halls have a standard layout seating 36, with statues in the middle and a statue garden top and bottom that dwarves have to go through to get to the seating area. It's all standardized, so once I decide what goes where, the actual layout is always the same.

 * As far as training goes, all hunters and peasants are instantly inducted into the military. Dwarves withotu any noteworthy skill are inducted into pump operator training, with hauling tasks enabled. Once they reach legendary, they're witched to full time haulers.

 * I use all my stone.

 * I tend to build z-levels slowly, making levels as clear and clean as practical befoe building the next level down. Keeps fps down, and minimizes problems when I need something done now.

Blargityblarg

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2009, 01:03:33 am »

I share most of Bucket's idiosyncracies, actually:

-Flat terrain

-Significant walled-in area (usually)

-Completely different here: I can get by for several years on ten logs, and I have magma, my wood dependency decreases even further.

-Organised fort structure

-Peasants get turned into haulers/drones. Skilled-but-useless dwarves get militarised.

-I try to use all my stone, or at least clear it from the rooms.

-I often expand slowly.
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Lord Dakoth

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2009, 01:31:36 am »

I always have to have a large, walled region. If there's water in the way, build over it. If there are trees in the way, cut them down. IF THERE'S A MOUNTAIN IN THE WAY, FLATTEN IT.

ALL ABOVEGROUND STRUCTURES must be symmetrical about 2 axis.

All stone must be cleared, all walls must be smooth. Engravings are only allowed on the walls of the dining hall and in important dwarves' tombs.

All the furniture in one room MUST be of the same material, of the same quality if possible.

Captured invaders should be put on display or dropped from ridiculously high towers.

All Rope Reed Cloth must be seized and dumped into the magma pit. Along with the traders, if convenient.

I've seen some more inane habits with some other people I know who play DF. Catoblepas comes to mind; whenever we hang out to play DF, he always tries to pressure me into making the murky pools square and smoothing the entire freaking countryside.
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Doomshifter

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2009, 02:00:18 am »

My entrances are always 3 tiles wide leading down to a 5x5 area for the trade depot, another 3x3 corridor behind it and then another 5x5 area with 3x3 down stairs. This is my main staircase, that goes through the centre of the entire fortress.

I've had a recent obsession with circular rooms, so all important or otherwise special rooms have to have a circular shape.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2009, 02:18:30 am »

Only artifacts may be made out of ore. If I want higher-value furniture, I use metal, even though that's inefficient.
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Xehon

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2009, 03:05:11 am »

Examples of my fortresses are:

Silverwaters
Roomtyphoons

Oooh... Nice <<*fortresses*>> there. I love the designs even though the first one reminds me of an elven tree city somehow. What titleset did you use for Silverwaters? Also, I love the dragon in the other one. Nice work.

Only artifacts may be made out of ore. If I want higher-value furniture, I use metal, even though that's inefficient.

Same here. I simply can't bring my self to exploit the high values of ores. Ore is for making metal, not furniture(though I still use native ore walls for high value rooms sometimes). Also, metal is like a treasure for me. In older fortresses I end up with vast hordes of metal bars, since I only use them for important projects and military. Lately I've begun to boost my trade with metal crafts(especially since with my mods I have 5-6 trading races), but since I always buy all metal bar the traders bring and often request them with trade agreements, it doesn't change the balance much. I remember to have had over 2000 metal bars in my last fortress and that one didn't even last that long.

Seems like there are a few general building styles. I guess we could even start dividing building styles into schools.
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silhouette

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2009, 03:37:23 am »

Then mines the school of the z-level staircase fortress.
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dAGNARUS

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2009, 03:51:19 am »

I always like to find a small hill, preferably next to a couple of other small hills, but not necessary.
At the south side of the hill I make my large entry hall, with 3 squares thick walls and 3 rows of floodgates. This entrance is ONLY used by wagons. On top of the hill, I remove all of the ramps and make a single retractable bridge to the north. (to another hill/a bigger mountain). Here is where I also build my siege engines later on.
On top of the hill, I usually build a big tower for the millitary, with barracks, weapons and armor stockpiles, archery ranges, sparring areas etc.
On top of the hill,I make usually 3x3 staircases down. On the first level underground (the large entry hall) I usually don't have anything, except for a couple of spare stockpiles and my trade depot. Another staircase down, and here we have the "temporary living area". Here I make my stockpiles for almost everything, with corresponding workshops right next to them. Later on, I use a side hall to make this 40x40 meeting hall/dining room/statue garden hybrid. One more staircase down. Here are the quarters for the normal dwarves. They all have 4x4 bedrooms, which I usually smoothen AND engrave, but usually I only smoothen them. I make a small hallway to the north here too, and make my jail there. Another staircase down is my labor area. Here is my labor area. All possible workshops are here (except siege workshop, that one is on top of the hill) with enormous stockpiles for everything. A final staircase down brings us to the noble quarters, with 40x40 bedroom/dining hall/offices for my first 7 dwarvs, and 5x5 size rooms for all other nobles.

Any questions?
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TKGP

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Re: Fortress building styles, quirks and habits
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2009, 04:10:32 am »

My forts are usually laid out like so:
Above ground: pretty much nothing, or maybe some canals and such
Ground -1: farming, brewing
-2: stockpiles, workshops, dining
Bottom +1: noble quarters
Bottom: bedrooms
Everything in between ground -2 and bottom +1: strip mining
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