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[Mephansteras]

Well, he's probably going to be a survivor, since chances are he'll send his second letter to a townsperson. And that townsperson will know who he is, so...probably not a big deal, really. Then all we have to do is find and lynch (or use the 1-shot NK) the Ginch and town wins.

[Akigagak]

Uh, read the beginning of the topic again, there are two Grinches.

And of course I didn't get a role.

Akigagak, why is that?

How would I know?
This is my first non-TWG mafia.

[RandomNumberGenerator]

Unvote

Leafsnail, why are you so focused on finding the scrooge? He isn't the problem (at least not at the moment) - the grinches are. Moreover, it seems you are trying to break the system, and Dakarian said that isn't a good plan. You also keep trying to draw the helper out, which is favorable to the grinches because they don't even have to counter-claim, they just NK him.

[Leafsnail]

Unvote.

Unvote

Leafsnail, why are you so focused on finding the scrooge? He isn't the problem (at least not at the moment) - the grinches are. Moreover, it seems you are trying to break the system, and Dakarian said that isn't a good plan. You also keep trying to draw the helper out, which is favorable to the grinches because they don't even have to counter-claim, they just NK him.

The Scrooge could become a very big problem if he becomes a Grinch, let's put it that way.  NKing the Helper will prevent Santa from being NK'd, so they may not do that anyway.

In addition, RNG, why are you placing the third vote on a bandwagon without any new information?  Do you have any suggestions for what we should do or are you just trying to kick me while I'm down?  Even if the helper is NK'd that situation isn't any worse than us doing nothing.

[Zai]

Unvote

Leafsnail, why are you so focused on finding the scrooge? He isn't the problem (at least not at the moment) - the grinches are. Moreover, it seems you are trying to break the system, and Dakarian said that isn't a good plan. You also keep trying to draw the helper out, which is favorable to the grinches because they don't even have to counter-claim, they just NK him.

Thank you, contender #3 for Little Mister Bandwagon. RNG, if you could have one wish, what would it be for?

And of course I didn't get a role.

Complain complain complain. Whine whine whine. Moan moan moan. RedWarrior0's the Grinch, everybody.

[PPE:] Ninja'd somewhat.

[Zai]

Oh. Forgot about this quote in another tab:

Zai, get out here. Do you have a jolly smile or yellowed, aging teeth like those Grinches?

Jolly smile and a big round belly, just like the rest of us.

[RandomNumberGenerator]

Unvote.

Unvote

Leafsnail, why are you so focused on finding the scrooge? He isn't the problem (at least not at the moment) - the grinches are. Moreover, it seems you are trying to break the system, and Dakarian said that isn't a good plan. You also keep trying to draw the helper out, which is favorable to the grinches because they don't even have to counter-claim, they just NK him.

The Scrooge could become a very big problem if he becomes a Grinch, let's put it that way.  NKing the Helper will prevent Santa from being NK'd, so they may not do that anyway.

In addition, RNG, why are you placing the third vote on a bandwagon without any new information?  Do you have any suggestions for what we should do or are you just trying to kick me while I'm down?  Even if the helper is NK'd that situation isn't any worse than us doing nothing.

Oi oi, I wasn't trying to bandwagon. I just thought your posts didn't add up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we supposed to put pressure on people when something doesn't look right?

As far Scrooge goes, I disagree. I disagree tremendously. We have two Grinches in the game right now. Even if Scrooge becomes a mafia-ally, he still won't have their full power. Scrooge can't access the mafia chat or converse with the other Grinches, which is the scum's most powerful ability. Even if the Grinch and Scrooge find out who each other are, they still can't talk because PMs are forbidden outside of Santa letters. In addition, he won't be able to NK unless he becomes SK or gets the Vigalante power. Why on earth do you think that Scrooge is more dangerous than the Grinches? The only reason I can think of that anybody would be afraid of the Scrooge right now is if they were Mafia, because he is a threat to their power.

As far as NKing the helper preventing a Santa NK, If I were scum I would rather take out a sure-shot at the helper that prevents a lot of abilities from being given, than taking a 1/9 shot at a chance to take out Santa. Remember, the Grinches can gain Santa abilities, too.

Basically, I don't understand your reasoning, Leafsnail. It doesn't make sense to me. That's why I voted you. Apparently others thought the same, or they wouldn't have voted you in the first place and I wouldn't be accused of bandwagoning. Personally, I would have voted you either way, because your motives seem shady. Right now you're my #1 suspect for scum. Until I figure out why you're acting funny, my vote stays.

Thank you, contender #3 for Little Mister Bandwagon. RNG, if you could have one wish, what would it be for?

I wish I was a day-cop, so I could check out Leafsnail right now. Then I would know for sure. Unfortunately, no day-cops are in this game... No normal cops, either. At least, not until Santa gives his gifts out.

[Leafsnail]

You aren't actually pointing out any flaws in my plan at all.  You're just explaining why you think Scrooge isn't important.  Now, I dunno about you, but if I had a way to track down and eliminate a pro-mafia player, I would use it.  We can use Scrooge's forced double letter sending in order to find him.

Now, RNG, what are my motives?  Even if you disagree with my plan and think we should instead risk scum stealing our abilities, why would that make me scum?  Unless, of course, you just want someone who isn't on your team lynched.

But there's also something else I've realised.  Personally, I think that giving out abilities is only secondary ability of the Santa/ Santa Helper.  Their primary ability is to self confirm.  Therefore, whatever happens today, Santa and his Helper should claim tomorrow and confirm.

[Mephansteras]

Wait, what?

You seriously want Santa to claim??

Maybe you should read this again:

If Santa dies before Day 2 begins, the gift giving will NOT occur.  If Santa dies before or afterwards, the town will mourn him, causing them to lose a day.

[Leafsnail]

Argh, missed that bit.  Focused more on the gift giving element.

[RandomNumberGenerator]

You aren't actually pointing out any flaws in my plan at all.  You're just explaining why you think Scrooge isn't important.  Now, I dunno about you, but if I had a way to track down and eliminate a pro-mafia player, I would use it.  We can use Scrooge's forced double letter sending in order to find him.

For the last time, SCROOGE IS NOT YET PRO-MAFIA! There is a 1/5 chance that he will become Pro-Mafia. Even if he does turn Pro-Mafia, Scrooge will be less powerful than the regular mafia players. Why on earth do you want to scrooge-hunt instead of scum-hunt?!? It makes no sense to me! That is the flaw in your plan, and that is why I think you're one of the Grinches.

Now, RNG, what are my motives?  Even if you disagree with my plan and think we should instead risk scum stealing our abilities, why would that make me scum?  Unless, of course, you just want someone who isn't on your team lynched.

What? I never said anything about risking ability theft. I never even mentioned it.

But there's also something else I've realised.  Personally, I think that giving out abilities is only secondary ability of the Santa/ Santa Helper.  Their primary ability is to self confirm.  Therefore, whatever happens today, Santa and his Helper should claim tomorrow and confirm.

You've got to be kidding, right? Even after the gift-giving is over, Santa role-claiming is one of the worst things that could happen. Why? Because after he claims, Mafia and NK him and town will lose a whole entire day.

I'm now certain you're scum. Your 'plans' are filled with anti-town measures, and your overall goal does not coincide with the town's. There is no way you could be pro-town.

[Leafsnail]

This is interesting.  I already responded to your last point and yet you ignored that post so you could bandwagon.

For the last time, SCROOGE IS NOT YET PRO-MAFIA! There is a 1/5 chance that he will become Pro-Mafia. Even if he does turn Pro-Mafia, Scrooge will be less powerful than the regular mafia players. Why on earth do you want to scrooge-hunt instead of scum-hunt?!? It makes no sense to me! That is the flaw in your plan, and that is why I think you're one of the Grinches.

But he's the one who can be trapped through this method!  I want to scumhunt as well (hence why I'm voting for you, the blatant bandwagonner) but rooting out Scrooge would be a serious bonus.

[RandomNumberGenerator]

This is interesting.  I already responded to your last point and yet you ignored that post so you could bandwagon.

Yeah, when I started writing that post, it was before either you or Mephansteras posted. By the time I realized that was already taken care of, I already posted. No edits allowed, so I just left it there.

For the last time, SCROOGE IS NOT YET PRO-MAFIA! There is a 1/5 chance that he will become Pro-Mafia. Even if he does turn Pro-Mafia, Scrooge will be less powerful than the regular mafia players. Why on earth do you want to scrooge-hunt instead of scum-hunt?!? It makes no sense to me! That is the flaw in your plan, and that is why I think you're one of the Grinches.

But he's the one who can be trapped through this method!  I want to scumhunt as well (hence why I'm voting for you, the blatant bandwagonner) but rooting out Scrooge would be a serious bonus.

Aside from accusing me of bandwagoning, you aren't scumhunting in an way, shape or form. You're just rolefishing for helper/santa/scrooge, who as I already said, are not the problem in this game. There is a greater chance of Scrooge remaining a Survivor than becoming an SK(8 Mall Santas versus 2 Mafia and 2 Santa+Helper), and an equal chance of him becoming pro-town or pro-mafia(Once again, 2 versus 2). I'll reiterate: Scrooge is not yet a threat. There is the potential of him turning, but the Grinches are a much, much bigger problem than that is.

[Mr.Person]

Well, this all depends on the powers the town winds up getting.

Anyways, I'm going to keep my vote on Leafsnail. The way you jumped on RNG accuseg him of bandwagoning? No, he's not bandwagoning, he's said why he thinks you're scum. Why do you think he's scum?

[Leafsnail]

He didn't add anything new when he voted me.  In addition, he didn't offer any explanation of his ideas until I pressed him.  Also, he hasn't suggested a better course of action, and is just bashing me.

I'll reiterate: Scrooge is not yet a threat. There is the potential of him turning, but the Grinches are a much, much bigger problem than that is.

I'm not saying he necessarily is.  However, catching him would be a bonus, yes?