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[kalida99]

This has been suggested before, but to the extent of my searches they are short, and don't dive into detail. So here's my thoughts:

Wooden constructs: These would be most vulnerable to my system, Any unit with an Axe can destroy a wooden construct. Units of different strengths would have different speeds of cutting through walls, doors, etc. Axes would also speed up the deconstruction of wooden walls.

Branching off, Units above size 4 can kick down wooden doors, while units above size 10 have a chance of splintering the wood causing (possibly) deadly splinters to fly into anyone nearby. A unit with an axe, or a catapult shot would also have a chance of splintering the door. what the doors is hinged to has an effect on the Splintering, loam, soil, and sand walls would always give way and never splinter the door. Doors built into stone walls may splinter, doors built into metal ore walls would have a greater chance, and doors built into adamant walls, and metal would ALWAYS splinter.

The same goes for other wooden constructs, excluding walls, where only a catapult may splinter them.

Stone Constructs: These would be a lot harder to destroy,a unit sizes 5-10 would need a hammer, or siege machine to destroy, units size 11+ can kick it down with enough force. Stone doors and walls would have an effect different from splinter, instead causing dust, pebbles or even chunks of rocks to fly everywhere, Dust would reduce the sight range of dwarves, causing ranged weapons to have a small chance of hitting someone. Pebbles would cause minor bruises and might cause tiny dents in armor. Small chunks may cause minor breaking of limbs of an unarmored person and dent armor. Large chunks may break or mangle limbs, kill, knock out, or suffocate armored or unarmored personnel, with armored more likely to suffocate, or be knocked out, and an unarmored person directly killed.

(large and small chunks may only be caused my heavy siege equipment, or megabeasts)

Metal Constructs: Largely indestructible, needing multiple siege shots to puncture or break a wall, and multiple walls being nearly indestructible. Metal doors could slowly be knocked down with maces and hammers, units size 30+ have a chance of knocking down a door. Metal based megabeasts would not be stopped by walls, instead either melding into the wall/door, or absorbing it. metal doors and walls have a very small chance when hit or destroyed to send metal chips flying out causing cuts, and have possibility of internal damage. in any other case causing metal spikes to appear where to wall was, with a possibility of causing cuts to unarmored personnel moving through the tile.

Adamantine is invulnerable to most attacks, only attacks with sufficient force, and proper material can damage the walls. Also while being the one of the lightest metals in the game, a megabeast, or creature may have enough strength to rip a construct from it's foundation and toss it.

VERMIN: Vermin would take a larger step from gnawing on barrels, and may chew on walls and doors. insect vermin like termites may slowly destroy wooden constructs, rain may also cause slow rot and decay of wooden constructs, if not properly protected.

Racial Differences: Different races would use different walls, with different heights.
Elves use walls of trees and thick foliage that quickly regrows and is incredibly thick and hard to cut, but however VERY weak to fire. may also fall apart or become weaker if the village druid is slain
Humans Use standard stone walls, nothing special, early settlements may use wooden palisades.
Dwarves Also use stone walls but due to mighty dwarvern stoneworking they are stronger than their human counterparts.
Kobolds and Animal peoplesmay use simple wooden fences and sloppy wooden palisades, very poor construction and may be knocked over by small creatures.
UNDEAD(if they ever rise as a Civ) would use decrepit stone walls, with iron reinforcement (if possible) to compensate for their warlike nature.

EDIT: ADAMANTINE REVISION
EDIT2: VERMIN+RACES

Whaddya think?

[Foa]

toad-edit: rude post reported and removed

[kalida99]

And trust me there are long posts about this.
And adamant shouldn't be indestructible ( to non-adamant ware ) it should be nigh indestructible ( to non-adamant ware ) !!!
If it were so, it would mean you would be able to destroy it, but it really isn't recommended for how long it'd take.
That mean metal should be knocked down, but not that far.

Oh and dude, if size 11 entities can hit thing one block away it would be hard to miss it, even if you are blind.

Most of the suggestions i found about this were one or two paragraphs, and quite vague. so i wanted to expand it.

Adamant is the best metal in the game, the only thing i could imagine being able to scratch or even dent it, is a diamond, or adamant attack with sufficient force ( like a catapult shot). attempting to take down an Adamantine wall with anything less that adamant is just like trying to cut a diamond with a wooden hammer..

Also it's REALLY hard to concentrate with eyes full sand and rock dust, not to mention stings like hell, as well as possibly blinding.

Needs some revision, but no idea is perfect.

[QuakeIV]

Sorry, but I have to say this, Foa, your an asshole.

To me all of the ideas made perfect sense to me, I loved them and am largely like-minded about all the cool advanced deconstruction ideas.

[Malsqueek]

I like all of them except the Adamantine suggestion (as proposed).

What is the tensile strength of Adamantine? Is it awesome because it is really strong, but bends a LONG ways before breaking, or is it super-hard, and unpliable?

Simply walking up to an adamantine door with an adamantine butter knife won't do a damn thing. You'll get some scratches in, but that's about it.

Frankly, I'd like to see the adamantine stuff shatter if hit by enough force. It's rediculously tough and inflexible (in my mind) which would mean that a strong enough hit would shatter it. Dragon punches? Sure! Catapults (shooting anything hard) would have a moderate chance of shattering it.

I guess what I'm saying is that it take a LONG time to carve through a diamond with a diamond. You need other methods, because cutting isn't going to do it.

As an aside, I would also like to see Adamantine things resist "Building Destroyer 1" tags in general.

[Impaler[WrG]]

It sounds like your trying to quantify two things the strength of hinges that keep door attached and the strength of the door itself.  Personally I think some kind of hing or mechanism should actually be used in a door (at least any door that can be locked and need knocking down) so both door and hinges can be considered separately for strength and damage resistance.  I'd also recommend something like simple damage points from attacks and hit-points and armor values on each object to determine when it breaks, but it seems Toady is going with some system which incorporates the yield modulus and rockwell hardness scales into material definitions so the system its going to be nigh incomprehensible.

[kalida99]

Basically yes, if the doors health was dropped from HP/100% to HP/0%, then it would have one of the special effects listed, depending on how far past 0% it dropped. but if the hinges instead broke the door would fall in, and be deconstructed. I did not consider additional hinges required for construction, but it would make sense to either use hinges attached to the door from construction, and if you have others of better quality around, you can "Reinforce" the door. Perhaps even add metal plates to the door to make it tougher.

I just hope THE GREAT ONE takes into consideration at least some of my ideas for special deconstructions.

[CaptainNitpick]

Stone Constructs: These would be a lot harder to destroy,a unit sizes 5-10 would need a hammer, or siege machine to destroy, units size 11+ can kick it down with enough force.

[snip]

Metal based megabeasts would not be stopped by walls, instead either melding into the wall/door, or absorbing it.

[snip]

Adamantine is invulnerable to most attacks, only attacks with sufficient force, and proper material can damage the walls. Also while being the one of the lightest metals in the game, a megabeast, or creature may have enough strength to rip a construct from it's foundation and toss it.

These rules mean a bronze colossus can destroy every wall. How is the player supposed to build a fortress against something that does that?

I'm preemptively objecting to answers that make a distinction between natural materials and constructions. Untouched sand should not be more able to resist a megabeast than a constructed wall made of the ultimate material in the game. Even a wall constructed from stone should be stronger.

[G-Flex]

And trust me there are long posts about this.
And adamant shouldn't be indestructible ( to non-adamant ware ) it should be nigh indestructible ( to non-adamant ware ) !!!
If it were so, it would mean you would be able to destroy it, but it really isn't recommended for how long it'd take.
That mean metal should be knocked down, but not that far.

Oh and dude, if size 11 entities can hit thing one block away it would be hard to miss it, even if you are blind.

Most of the suggestions i found about this were one or two paragraphs, and quite vague. so i wanted to expand it.

Adamant is the best metal in the game, the only thing i could imagine being able to scratch or even dent it, is a diamond, or adamant attack with sufficient force ( like a catapult shot). attempting to take down an Adamantine wall with anything less that adamant is just like trying to cut a diamond with a wooden hammer..

Also it's REALLY hard to concentrate with eyes full sand and rock dust, not to mention stings like hell, as well as possibly blinding.

Needs some revision, but no idea is perfect.

You could probably shatter a diamond with a wooden hammer, fyi. "Hard" doesn't always mean "Strong".

And I really don't know why you're using size to determine effects here. Two creatures can have the same exact size but be made out of different stuff or have different strength entirely.

Metal based megabeasts would not be stopped by walls, instead either melding into the wall/door, or absorbing it.

I don't even know where this comes from. Why is every metal-based creature the T-1000 all of a sudden?

[darkflagrance]

However, in the future someone might decide to mod in size 100 creatures made entirely of gas; I think correlating size to destructive power isn't the best idea.

Far better to simply increase the number of building destroyer tags and assign them to whatever needs them. So building destroyer 1 and 2 might do what they already do, and then there might be 3 and 4 which correspond to being able to use certain tools to destroy doors, and then there might be 5/6 etc. that give the ability to break constructed walls or something.

Although, the pathfinding on building destroyers needs work. Your fps may not be greatly affected when a single dragon is on the map, but I'm sure a ton of the lag when you unleash HFS is their trying to path to buildings in addition to their ambush status. Sieges of creatures with building destroyer 2 lag the game to no end.

[Funk]

Wooden constructs:
any thing goblin size or up can with time smash wooden walls or doors.
you can brun wooden walls down.

Stone Constructs:
the size of the stones and how thay are built changes how hard it is to brake them.
i.e. stone blocks with moter>dry stone blocks>stone with moter>dry stone.
a lot harder to burn down(you need to crack the stones with the heat)

Metal Constructs:
can't to crush(you need tons)
you can't burn it like wood
at best you go over, under or round it
if you must then you need to pick one part to attack.

[Safe-Keeper]

Disregarding Foa's tantrums, I like the ideas here. And yes, we need a deep deconstruction system, and then it makes perfect sense that the bigger and stronger you are, the better your odds of crushing something. Might not be entirely realistic (a rottweiler is smaller than a cow, but probably a lot more dangerous when angry, for example), but it's a good starting point to expand from, along with the Buildingdestroyer tags and a check for what weapons you're holding.

[kalida99]

Alright, i see that my ideas need some further refinements.

I intended that metal megabeasts could only meld with the material they are made of, maybe to promote you to build more than one wall, or make metal megabeats seem unique, and more dangerous. More than "RAWR I AM GIANT METAL MAN! CRUSH!"

I can agree with the size thing, since size doesn't determine strength. But since there is no "Direct" measure of strength other than "strong" and tags like that, SO i used a different measure with a direct number, that and it didn't make sense seeing a mountain gnome running around kicking in all you doors.

[G-Flex]

Stuff like size, strength, etc. is all changing for the next release anyway, which you might want to look into if you haven't yet.


A creature being able to meld itself into materials similar to itself IS interesting for certain creatures, though. I don't really see, say, a bronze colossus doing it though.

[darkflagrance]

I can agree with the size thing, since size doesn't determine strength. But since there is no "Direct" measure of strength other than "strong" and tags like that, SO i used a different measure with a direct number, that and it didn't make sense seeing a mountain gnome running around kicking in all you doors.

Ah, the OP doesn't seem to measure any system depending on variables other than relative size. But in any case, even small creatures should be capable of breaking doors etc. Imagine the Verminous Termite - size 1, but capable of devouring an entire forest, let alone the wooden buildings in the local village.