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Author Topic: Elven Zoo(or something)  (Read 1949 times)

Starver

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Re: Elven Zoo(or something)
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2009, 06:50:39 am »

The key difference between "captivity" and "slavery" is whether or not you're forcing something to do work.

c.f. also "indentured service".  Very similar to slavery, in many respects yet (supposed to be, at least) time-limited and at least partially willingly entered into by the 'owned' person.  (Although grey areas abounded.)

But nothing to do with caged elves.  Which (if they truly are looked after) sounds very much more like a reality show situation, apart from the original chase-and-catch part of the process.  Call it "Big Wooder" or "I'm A Friend-Of-A-Tree, Get Me Out Of Here", perhaps. :)
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Silverionmox

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Re: Elven Zoo(or something)
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2009, 06:51:40 am »

If you want your dwarves to keep sapients in cages that's fine, but the curious thing is the obsession with elves.
Two words: wooden cages.
[TORTURE_FOR_FUN:MANDATORY]? At least elves give the option to escalate. Goblins skip that phase. They probably hate dwarves for their beards.
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Foa

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Re: Elven Zoo(or something)
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2009, 07:18:54 am »

The key difference between "captivity" and "slavery" is whether or not you're forcing something to do work.

c.f. also "indentured service".  Very similar to slavery, in many respects yet (supposed to be, at least) time-limited and at least partially willingly entered into by the 'owned' person.  (Although grey areas abounded.)

But nothing to do with caged elves.  Which (if they truly are looked after) sounds very much more like a reality show situation, apart from the original chase-and-catch part of the process.  Call it "Big Wooder" or "I'm A Friend-Of-A-Tree, Get Me Out Of Here", perhaps. :)
Oh, and there is hostage.

If you want your dwarves to keep sapients in cages that's fine, but the curious thing is the obsession with elves.
Two words: wooden cages.
[TORTURE_FOR_FUN:MANDATORY]? At least elves give the option to escalate. Goblins skip that phase. They probably hate dwarves for their beards.
No, just no, they are a race that of which is ruled by fell, and macabre demons, there is no wonder in why they try to kill dwarves, humans, kobolds, elves, and life in general.
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Bricks

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Re: Elven Zoo(or something)
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2009, 07:45:06 pm »

I don't think we'll ever see dwarves capturing others for entertainment.  Traps, yes, but even keeping enemies in cages for extended periods of time should create bad thoughts, especially if they start requiring food and water.  Any sort of ethics-defying activity should be pretty much impossible in dwarf mode, since you are more of a director than a hive mind.

That said, slave trade and such would make since for some of the crueler races, such as goblins and potentially humans, and elves should have ethics that treats ownership of animals like slavery.  It would all make for interesting adventure mode scenarios.
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The Mad Engineer

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Re: Elven Zoo(or something)
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2009, 01:23:47 am »

I think that actions such as these should be possible, but should also have consequences.

For instance, having all civ entities whose ethics this defies immediately s.declare war and start sieging you.  Looking at the RAWs, that includes humans, elves, and...

dwarves.

Have fun with your ambush parties of adamantine plate wearing dwarven champions from another civ, slave owner...

Rakonas

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Re: Elven Zoo(or something)
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2009, 01:54:40 am »

Doesn't capturing elves besieging your fortress pretty obviously fall under 'prisoner of war', not slavery ::) ?
Besides, ethics will eventually not be based solely on race, sometimes your dwarven civilization might condone slavery, so why not make slavery/capture of sapients possible?
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Virex

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Re: Elven Zoo(or something)
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2009, 06:16:45 pm »

Can't you cage someone for breaking the law "Do not, in any way, act like, be, or seem to be an elf or anything remotely similar to an elf. Do not, in any way, sympathise, seem to sympathis or fail to hate elves, or anything remotely similar to an elf."?

With that said, this should be doable with a correct set of raws, if only because I want to see humans set up circusses with exhibitions of "Rare and never before seen kin".
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irmo

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Re: Elven Zoo(or something)
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2009, 06:55:35 pm »

Besides, ethics will eventually not be based solely on race, sometimes your dwarven civilization might condone slavery, so why not make slavery/capture of sapients possible?

Because it's complex to implement and doesn't directly add anything to the game.

Someday it might. And someday it can be implemented.
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Supercharazad

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Re: Elven Zoo(or something)
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2009, 12:21:33 pm »

I belive that anyone who uses their laws is this argument is forgetting one thing, those are human laws these are dwarves with all their elf-hating malice and hell, why not kill evil, hypocratic(sp?) elves anyway, one sieges dwarves, dwarves put them in zoos, the latter is obviously the bigger person (metaphoricly, that is)
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sproingie

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Re: Elven Zoo(or something)
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2009, 02:08:21 pm »

It's already possible to butcher kittens and drop children into magma.  Can we please not go all the way down the spiral playground slide to hell with new stuff?
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Silverionmox

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Re: Elven Zoo(or something)
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2009, 07:42:07 pm »

Besides, ethics will eventually not be based solely on race, sometimes your dwarven civilization might condone slavery, so why not make slavery/capture of sapients possible?
Because it's complex to implement and doesn't directly add anything to the game.
Someday it might. And someday it can be implemented.
I don't see how it's much more complicated than hunting, but use wrestling only, and when the prey is down cage it instead of kill it. It ought to count as an act of war, of course.

Tying ethics to civilizations (i.e., cultures) and not races is only logical.

I belive that anyone who uses their laws is this argument is forgetting one thing, those are human laws these are dwarves with all their elf-hating malice and hell, why not kill evil, hypocratic(sp?) elves anyway, one sieges dwarves, dwarves put them in zoos, the latter is obviously the bigger person (metaphoricly, that is)
I don't see any reason for elf-hating malice in-game than a minor difference of opinion on the appropriate use of wood and in the disposal of corpses. You must have brought your own human sentiment in it... I think, because you start losing coherence halfway the sentence.
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