Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Savok]

Hi!

Until a few weeks ago (more than a few. But not nearly as many as several.), I had no programming skills. Zip. Naught. Nihil. So, I got a beginner's book and started teaching myself Java (yes, I'm embarrassed about that. The language has disappointed me. Sadly, my hours of searching for one that I, newbie, could switch to have been fruitless). Of course, I've made a few misc trivial programs, but I've only had one - named Code 74 - that I've developed to the stages of "actually using a GUI" and "built in at least kinda an object-oriented style." If anybody wants to see some of the first few versions, I uploaded them here. (aw... lookat past-me; he just learned how to use a KeyListener! so cute.)

I've discovered that I love programming. It's mostly replaced gaming as something to do in free time (though DFvNext will replace it for a while, I'm sure). Clearly, then, I need some goal to design towards. What should it be? Well, there are two reasons I could program. (1) to teach myself and (2) to create something worthwhile. The first just is a bit boring. Soooo... finally, the whole point of this post. Basically, I'm trying to write a clone of DF. In Java. Even though I have absolutely no prior experience programming. Yeah, I don't think I'll actually come anywhere near.

Supposing that I succeed in making something that is really similar (if quite inferior), without actually using any code or raw files from the game, is there any illegality in freely sharing the game, similar to how Bay 12 Games has done with their games? If it was, I would be very sad. Maybe I could design a game with a similar CP437 keyboard-based interface (that interface I happen to love).

Edit: oh! right! that's what I was forgetting! Toady, are you okay with this?
Edit-edit: thank you Toady!

Edit2: Latest version is here. Source files are included inside the jar - open it.

--Savok,
hoping that this sort of thing is okay
glad that this sort of thing is okay and thankful for the programming advice

[bluephoenix]

What you are trying to do is called reverse engineering and is legal IF you dont use any copywriten(that how you spell it?) protected material such as the name of the game ect. but IMHO you should ask toady if he would be OK with it.

[Impaler[WrG]]

On the programming side of things I'd recommend Python and the PyGame library which is basically a python wrapper of SDL and lets you easily do a 2D game with mouse and keyboard input.  I'd recommend you start out very very simple and iterate more features as you go, but always keep it playable also use a source control tool like SVN even if its just a local repository, you will need it.

[Yolan]

Surely this should be in general discussion?

[Impaler[WrG]]

Surely this should be in general discussion?

Which is why it indeed is 

[Capntastic]

It really depends how similar to DF the game is.

[smjjames]

Still, really should ask Toady if its okay with him.

Some sort of simulator would be fun or funny, but definetly won't have the same capabilities as the game itself.

[Amalgam]

Can't guarantee Toady will read this - he might anyway but you should probably send a pm.

[Footkerchief]

Surely this should be in general discussion?

Which is why it indeed is 

DF General Discussion != General Discussion.  Game project threads usually go in Other Games or Creative Projects, though.

OP, if this thread is intended as a question to Toady, you should probably just PM him -- he currently doesn't have much time to post much.  Or you could just take the high road and make something reasonably original.  Incidentally, that would also avoid the risk of putting Toady in the awkward position of telling you he'd prefer that you not rip off his game.

[smjjames]

Maybe make an adventure style thing based in the DF universe? Since Toady doesn't want to go open source and doesn't want to have to worry about competition, it can be a touchy topic.

[Amalgam]

Yeah, ascii isn't hard. Or at least there isn't much frontend stuff to do, you don't even have to make sprites or anything, just use a set of existing glyphs. I've only dabbled a tiny bit in programming but I think it'd probably be more rewarding to do something from scratch (well, besides some handy libraries). It'd make it a bit more personal and help to define it as *your* project... Always a nice feeling

[Savok]

DF General Discussion != General Discussion.  Game project threads usually go in Other Games or Creative Projects, though.

Surely this should be in general discussion?

*is embarrassed to admit that I didn't know General Discussion even existed*

On the programming side of things I'd recommend Python and the PyGame library which is basically a python wrapper of SDL and lets you easily do a 2D game with mouse and keyboard input.  I'd recommend you start out very very simple and iterate more features as you go, but always keep it playable also use a source control tool like SVN even if its just a local repository, you will need it.

Python: I love what I've read about it, but although it supports multithreading it does not support usage of those threads on more than one core. Plus, I'd have to learn C to do processor-intensive stuff like pathfinding.
Jython: Sounds great but AFAIK has a 40% speed penalty compared to Python.
And yeah, that very very simple + iterate, keeping playable is what I'm doing.

OP, if this thread is intended as a question to Toady, you should probably just PM him -- he currently doesn't have much time to post much.  Or you could just take the high road and make something reasonably original.  Incidentally, that would also avoid the risk of putting Toady in the awkward position of telling you he'd prefer that you not rip off his game.

Ever since I started thinking about what an ideal game would be, long before I heard about DF, I had a sort of nebulous idea that has turned out to be pretty much multiplayer DF; "fantasy world simulator" isn't just Toady's idea. And then I mastered DF and so could probably describe in detail all that can occur in it. And then I started programming.

This is problematic.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Python: I love what I've read about it, but although it supports multithreading it does not support usage of those threads on more than one core. Plus, I'd have to learn C to do processor-intensive stuff like pathfinding.

Python can make use of C/C++ Dll's which allow you to offload those very intensive bits to a faster compiled languages (ideally the whole game 'model' should be their for maximum speed).  Civilization4 used this technique, the core game was implemented as a Dll and the interface as a python layer on top of that so this is not the barrier you think it is.  Also I just so happen to be working on a path-finding library written in C++, its currently part of Khazad but will eventually spin off as a library, it might be of some use too you when its matured a bit more.

[Flying Carcass]

Its probably legal so long as you don't use any of DF's assets and don't infringe on the DF trademark.

[Organ]

Just curious, what language is DF written in?